Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
The burden of proof is on you . You are saying regeneration precedes faith . its so outrageous there should least be a verse that says this . How Calvinism has survived this long staggers belief.
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Faith
- Thread starter AustinC
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Did not the Lord Jesus say to "them who have ears, let them hear?"
Explain the verses to me and how they relate to faith.
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
Romans 10:8-11
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
It may be that your brilliance will shine a light since I may not see the obviousness you see. Please explain these verses as they relate to faith.
Scripture please. I have made no claim at all in this thread. I have remained neutral so that every person can share the verses that they feel supports their claim. Scripture please.
37818
Well-Known Member
Nonsense, the lost call Jesus Lord,
Matthew 7;21-23.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
There is nothing "funny" about the ESV (English Standard Version) and mocking someone's preferred translation is a distinctly "unloving" act and a direct attack on the word of God and faith of another.
For the record:
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version, copyright © 2001, 2007, 2011, 2016 by Crossway Bibles a division of Good News Publishers. The Holy Bible, English Standard Version (ESV) is adapted from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible, copyright Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the U.S.A. All rights reserved.
Do you also have a problem with the RSV (Revised Standard Version) upon which the ESV was based?:
The Holy Bible: Revised Standard Version containing the Old and New Testaments, translated from the original tongues: being the version set forth A.D. 1611, revised A.D. 1881-1885 and A.D. 1901: compared with the most ancient authorities and revised A.D. 1946-52. — 2nd ed. of New Testament A.D. 1971.
... and the KJV (King James Version) upon which the RSV and ESV are based?
This Bible is printed and published by Cambridge University Press, the Queen's royal printer, under royal letters patent. The text commonly available now is actually that of the 1769 revision, not that of 1611.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
I can't read and take that translation seriously lol , let's look at it properly.
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Ok if you showed this verse to any person in the whole world that could read , they would say ' God is pleased to save those that believe.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
I'm mocking the Esv not the reader . And its a fact that Esv is the bible for calvinists .
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Yes equally there's an issue with the RSV .
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Hands up whos got ears ?
37818
Well-Known Member
A side issue.
The RV and ASV maybe.
Its for all!
Only those whom God granted to them spiritual hearing!
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, but if the power is in the GOSPEL (the words), then why is it usually ineffective? As the verse you quoted said:
- the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness
- the preaching of the cross ... unto us which are saved it is the power of God
Unless God does something to "transform" a "heart of stone" into "good soil" ...
[Eze 11:19] "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
[Eze 36:26] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
[Matthew 13:18-23] "Hear then the parable of the sower. "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil [one] comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no [firm] root in himself, but is [only] temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
[Act 2:37] "Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart ..."
[Act 16:14] "[Lydia] was listening; and the Lord opened her heart ..."
[Rom 8:29-30] "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, ... and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified ..."
[Eph 1:5-6, 8-10, 18-19 ] according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. ... which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, [that is,] the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him ... [I pray that] the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. [These are] in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
I could go on, but we both know that you already have enough to reject and correct my interpretation according to your view of scripture (as it should be). Let us just hope that we can communicate and in testing one another ... let Iron sharpen Iron.
37818
Well-Known Member
The lost never correctly understand the gospel. And the saved who did know God. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, ". . . But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."Fair enough, but if the power is in the GOSPEL (the words), then why is it usually ineffective? As the verse you quoted said:
Why is God's power ineffective in some (most) cases?
- the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness
- the preaching of the cross ... unto us which are saved it is the power of God
Unless God does something to "transform" a "heart of stone" into "good soil" ...
[Eze 11:19] "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
[Eze 36:26] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
[Matthew 13:18-23] "Hear then the parable of the sower. "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil [one] comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no [firm] root in himself, but is [only] temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
[Act 2:37] "Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart ..."
[Act 16:14] "[Lydia] was listening; and the Lord opened her heart ..."
[Rom 8:29-30] "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, ... and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified ..."
[Eph 1:5-6, 8-10, 18-19 ] according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. ... which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, [that is,] the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him ... [I pray that] the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. [These are] in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
I could go on, but we both know that you already have enough to reject and correct my interpretation according to your view of scripture (as it should be). Let us just hope that we can communicate and in testing one another ... let Iron sharpen Iron.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
... another group was sure that they could SEE:
- [John 9:41 NASB] 41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains."
There is a little more to HEARING than just having physical ears ...
- [Rev 2:7, 11, 17, 29 NASB]
- 7 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.' ...
- 11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.' ...
- 17 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give [some] of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.' ...
- 29 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'
[Rev 3:6, 13, 22 NASB]
- 6 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.' ...
- 13 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.' ...
- 22 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Take it up with the publisher of the RSV. They are the one that lists the 1611 Bible in their copyright.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
So who "unblinds" the minds so fallen men can "see" past the "foolishness" and a "natural man" can understand?
God! ... before one can Hear and Believe (their mind was blinded, the gospel was foolishness and they "cannot understand" according to scripture).
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