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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AustinC, Oct 19, 2020.

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  1. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Barry,
    Normally I choose not to reply to your posts, as to me you simply do not believe the Scriptures that detail God choosing people to salvation and that faith is a gift...
    But in this case, I thought it pertinent to point out something from God's word in the hope that you will see it as I have come to see it:

    " I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."     ( Galatians 2:20-21 ).

    This ( as well as other passages ) tells me that the faith of Jesus Christ not only can belong to the believer,
    but that it does indeed belong to each and every person that has the Holy Spirit in them.


    May God bless you richly, sir.
     
    #121 Dave G, Oct 22, 2020
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  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    True all men do not believe in Jesus This does not mean all men cannot believe.or have faith is Jesus.
    MB
     
    #122 MB, Oct 22, 2020
  3. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Scripture is not a list of proof texts .
     
    #123 Barry Johnson, Oct 22, 2020
  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Well if I took the same approach as you I wouldn't discuss or reply to anyone.
    5¶But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS faith is counted for righteousness.
     
    #124 Barry Johnson, Oct 22, 2020
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  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Faith is a gift. so is the air we breath and the food we eat . But this faith that we usually put in the wrong object is not a exclusive gift . Each man has been given a measure of the Faith . Each man decides which object to place that faith in . Salvation comes when a person puts his faith in Jesus . But where calvinists go wrong is that because of the system faith has to be a work and Faith has to be exclusive gift . Neither is found in the bible. This is not a biblical position. But this isn't the only issue with reformed theology sadly .
     
    #125 Barry Johnson, Oct 22, 2020
  6. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Boo, hiss. You are deliberately missing the point. Let me repeat it and make it clearer ...

    2 Corinthians 4 says NOTHING about how men are born, so you are presenting an "argument from silence" ... 2 Corinthians 4 does not deal with any of these questions, so it provides no answers to them.
    2 Corinthians 4 merely affirms that some men ARE BLINDED TO THE GOSPEL.
     
    #126 atpollard, Oct 22, 2020
  7. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    That is "know" not "foreknew".
     
    #127 atpollard, Oct 22, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  8. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Nor is Theology the study of unsupported opinions.
    If you intend to offer only unsupported pontifications and your own "proof texts", and dismiss all other scripture with a wave of your hand, then attempts at conversation is pointless.


    via stulti recta in oculis eius qui autem sapiens est audit consilia

    Finis.
     
    #128 atpollard, Oct 22, 2020
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Faith seems to be different than trust or belief.
    Here's the Bible's definition of faith.

    Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
     
    #129 AustinC, Oct 22, 2020
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  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Those being further blinded, this is on top of their depravity. The "seed" on the way side.
     
    #130 37818, Oct 22, 2020
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  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    What (or who) caused the jailer to believe?
     
    #131 AustinC, Oct 22, 2020
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  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    2 Thessalonians 3:1-3
    Finally, brothers,pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.
     
    #132 AustinC, Oct 22, 2020
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  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    #133 MB, Oct 22, 2020
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So, given your assertion, at what point in time is each man given a measure of faith (knowing that 2 Thessalonians 3 says some men do not have faith)?
     
    #134 AustinC, Oct 22, 2020
  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The Holy Spirit working through Paul and Silas preaching the gospel in Jail.
    MB
     
    #135 MB, Oct 22, 2020
  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Some do not have faith in Jesus yet they have faith all men have faith.
    MB
     
    #136 MB, Oct 22, 2020
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  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    "Each man decides."

    "Salvation comes when..."

    Tell us, Barry, how what you have stated is...salvation by grace.

    When I read what you wrote, you are teaching salvation by merited works. The human is the cause agent. Please explain your statement.
     
    #137 AustinC, Oct 22, 2020
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  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    What does the Holy Spirit do, before the jailer believes?
     
    #138 AustinC, Oct 22, 2020
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  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    That is not what the text says, however.
    2 Thessalonians 3:1-3
    Finally, brothers,pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.
     
    #139 AustinC, Oct 22, 2020
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  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    He works to help the sinner to accept Christ. He convicts and convinces the sinner of Christ.
    MB
     
    #140 MB, Oct 22, 2020
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