37818
Well-Known Member
How do those just born ". . . blinded the minds of them which believe not, . . " to be of those who are not believing?
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Faith
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37818
Well-Known Member
Mark 10:14-15. Matthew 18:3.
Are you saying you had no faith is any thing? You never trusted in anything not even money.
Faith; Don't you think it's obvious that this verse is talking about faith in Christ?
The meaning of the word;
FAITH, n. [L. fides, fido, to trust; Gr. to persuade, to draw towards any thing, to conciliate; to believe, to obey. In the Greek Lexicon of Hederic it is said, the primitive signification of the verb is to bind and draw or lead, as signifies a rope or cable. But this remark is a little incorrect. The sense of the verb, from which that of rope and binding is derived, is to strain, to draw, and thus to bind or make fast. A rope or cable is that which makes fast. Heb.]
Are you sure there is no other kind of faith besides faith in God?
MB
Dave G
Well-Known Member
The reason I try not to reply to certain people, is because I don't see the Scriptures that I lay right in front of them making any difference.
But I still hold out hope that you will.
For example, Ephesians 1:4-5 tells me that believers are chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
You disagree, and you don't seem willing to believe that I get my understanding of the passage right off the page...not from John Calvin;
Which leads me to state this:
Believe it or not, there are many people in the world that do not take their cues from men, Barry.
I'm one of them.
But it's mainly because of this inability to agree with one another about what is actually written,
that I feel that it's in my best interests to refrain from making any replies...
unless I feel the Lord's moving or that my reply might hopefully cause you to look at the text that much closer, my friend.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Amen.
As you know, I also hold that a person's faith is a gift.
Once given to us by God ( Ephesians 2:8 ), it becomes ours.
Therefore, I see no reason to disagree with the words on the page, as I clearly see it saying that a person's faith is counted for righteousness.
Now a question for you:
Does Scripture tell the believer why people believe or do not believe on Christ?
Yes, It does.
For example:
John 6:37-47, John 6:64-65, John 10:26 and many others have much to say about the cause of someone's belief;
There's far more to God's word than simply Romans 4:5, John 3:16, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10 and 1 John 2:2, to name a few.
There's all the rest ( Matthew 4:4 )…
And it's all just as important as key passages that tells us what characteristics or evidences that one of God's children ( who were chosen to salvation through those things ), will have...
One of which is their belief of the truth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).
What I'm hoping that you're willing to do, is to factor all of what is declared in the Scriptures, into your conclusions.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
That would be a "fail".
You did not prove it from 2 Cor 4 ... which was the point I was making: 2 Cor 4 doesn't say a LOT of things, but that isn't proof that they are true or false. It is just proof that 2 Cor 4 does not talk about them.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Those verses are not found in 2 Cor 4.
If you really want to use those Proof Texts to make that point, then why not baptize babies since "the kingdom of heaven is made of such as these"? I must have misunderstood this Adamic sin and fallen nature thing. And Romans 3 needs a serious second edition editing! Apparently SOME do seek God.
This must be you banging on that symbol. At least that's all you've done so far.si linguis hominum loquar et angelorum caritatem autem non habeam factus sum velut aes sonans aut cymbalum tinniens
MB
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
No where does it say that God gifts an EXCLUSIVE special gift of Faith . The bible makes it clear that God has given everyone the measure of faith ( Rom 12 .3 ) . Not, some have been given an exclusive Gift of faith . The air we breath is a gift from God . But its not exclusive. Neither is faith . Everyone has a choice what object they place their faith in . When its In Jesus this is when God justifies the person. HIS !!! faith is credited for righteousness. No where in the bible does it say regeneration precedes faith ..No where does it say Faith is an EXCLUSIVE gift . This is read INTO the text using the obscure verses that mention ' faith ' .Amen.
As you know, I also hold that a person's faith is a gift.
Once given to us by God ( Ephesians 2:8 ), it becomes ours.
Therefore, I see no reason to disagree with the words on the page, as I clearly see it saying that a person's faith is counted for righteousness.
Now a question for you:
Does Scripture tell the believer why people believe or do not believe on Christ?
Yes, It does.
For example:
John 6:37-47, John 6:64-65, John 10:26 and many others have much to say about the cause of someone's belief;
There's far more to God's word than simply Romans 4:5, John 3:16, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10 and 1 John 2:2, to name a few.
There's all the rest ( Matthew 4:4 )…
And it's all just as important as key passages that tells us what characteristics or evidences that one of God's children ( who were chosen to salvation through those things ), will have...
One of which is their belief of the truth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).
What I'm hoping that you're willing to do, is to factor all of what is declared in the Scriptures, into your conclusions.
The point is made that Faith is given as an Exclusive gift to some and not others . Where is this in the bible please ? And I don't mean obscure passages that if you squint your eye just right you.ll see it kind of verses .?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
You say ////As you know, I also hold that a person's faith is a gift.Amen.
As you know, I also hold that a person's faith is a gift.
Once given to us by God ( Ephesians 2:8 ), it becomes ours.
Therefore, I see no reason to disagree with the words on the page, as I clearly see it saying that a person's faith is counted for righteousness.
Now a question for you:
Does Scripture tell the believer why people believe or do not believe on Christ?
Yes, It does.
For example:
John 6:37-47, John 6:64-65, John 10:26 and many others have much to say about the cause of someone's belief;
There's far more to God's word than simply Romans 4:5, John 3:16, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10 and 1 John 2:2, to name a few.
There's all the rest ( Matthew 4:4 )…
And it's all just as important as key passages that tells us what characteristics or evidences that one of God's children ( who were chosen to salvation through those things ), will have...
One of which is their belief of the truth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).
What I'm hoping that you're willing to do, is to factor all of what is declared in the Scriptures, into your conclusions.
Once given to us by God ( Ephesians 2:8 ), it becomes ours./// This is the problem. You see a clear text that says ' HIS faith ' which is clear that its HIS faith. And because of your BELIEF about a person has to be gifted an exclusive gift of Faith , this trumps a clear verse that says by HIS faith ? Why are you doing that ?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
The same time we were all ' gifted ' the air we breath.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
[NASB] Romans 12:3-8 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith; if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching; or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.
Romans 12:3 makes it clear that God has given faith to ALL OF THE SAINTS IN THE BODY OF CHRIST!
You like context, Barry, correct? If so, let's look at context.
Romans 12:1-3
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
Your very reference disagrees with your assertion and proves you wrong.
(But, perhaps you will cry foul because the ESV is not your preferred English translation and apparently only your preferred translation is accurate...[emoji849])
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
The Bible shows your assertion to be completely false, however. Both 2 Thessalonians 3 and Romans 12 stand against your assertion.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
KJV . 3¶For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY MAN the measure of faith.
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