I am answering you, but you do not respond in kind, I am asking you to go through my responses, do not run and hide like cultists do when faced with biblical answers.
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Jesus Christ Shed His Blood for Judas
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
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sbg, pt3
I am quoting your words,line by line. If I can agree I will. As you are coming against what I believe, I would like you to go over my posts, quote what I actually say, then offer what you believe is correction.
The problem with guys like you is that you post as if my spokesman, without ever quoting what I say, or believe.I suspect that you try and move the goal post to suggest things i do not believe, but you feel confident you can answer.
Respond line by line, verse by verse.Thank You.
I am quoting your words,line by line. If I can agree I will. As you are coming against what I believe, I would like you to go over my posts, quote what I actually say, then offer what you believe is correction.
The problem with guys like you is that you post as if my spokesman, without ever quoting what I say, or believe.I suspect that you try and move the goal post to suggest things i do not believe, but you feel confident you can answer.
Respond line by line, verse by verse.Thank You.
sbg, pt4-
[QUOTE]but, there is a sting in this for those who are not "elect", they cannot ever be saved, because Jesus did not die for their sins![/QUOTE]
No one saved or unsaved knows who God determined to save before the world was before they are granted a new heart, repent and believe at one point in time, simultaneously. This kind of carnal reasoning is not found in scripture.
What looks to be misguided and insincere is this statement. The gospel was never meant for all people who ever lived, never.Millions have lived and died in their sins without hearing of Jesus or the gospel.
Said no Calvinist ever. This is the kind of strawman/caricature that the non cals specialize in. Everyone is a sinner, and we declare that Jesus came to save sinners, that's all, because that is quite enough. Your speculation is not needed.
Then by all means stop posting this nonsense.It came from your keyboard, not the Calvinists.
[QUOTE]but, there is a sting in this for those who are not "elect", they cannot ever be saved, because Jesus did not die for their sins![/QUOTE]
No one saved or unsaved knows who God determined to save before the world was before they are granted a new heart, repent and believe at one point in time, simultaneously. This kind of carnal reasoning is not found in scripture.
What looks to be misguided and insincere is this statement. The gospel was never meant for all people who ever lived, never.Millions have lived and died in their sins without hearing of Jesus or the gospel.
Said no Calvinist ever. This is the kind of strawman/caricature that the non cals specialize in. Everyone is a sinner, and we declare that Jesus came to save sinners, that's all, because that is quite enough. Your speculation is not needed.
Then by all means stop posting this nonsense.It came from your keyboard, not the Calvinists.
No...He has come to seek and save His sheep. He will save everyone of them.He is not willing thay any of them perish.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." Revelation 14:2
When you demand a requirement on humans, you "require" them to do a work in order for them to be saved. You teach saved by merit, not grace.
You have no facts, only poor speculative interpretation.
I have shown that in none of your passages can you find Jesus saying "repentance is required for salvation." Nowhere does the Bible say what you teach.
Instead, it is clear that the person whom God pricks will be affected by the Spirit of God to respond in repentance. No person in outright rebellion will ever repent when they are still in rebellion. For example, not one ISIS fighter ever just repented before being overpowered by US troops. Rebels don't repent by their own free will.
Next, you seem to reject John 6, John 10, John 17, Romans 3, Romans 8-12, Ephesians 1-2, the list goes on and on.
What this thread makes painfully clear is that your username is false. You should change it to savedbymerit.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Claiming the infallibility of the inspired Word, the Name of Jesus, and various Bible verses to picture The Almighty Triune Godhead as a failure is unparalleled sympathy for the Devil and his servant, Judas, who has been in Hell, since.
"you", in the verse, are those who
were represented by the bread, when Jesus was to be Crucified.
The ones Jesus Gave His Body for, included the same, "you", of Saved Disciples, Jesus was Speaking AND Referring to.
One who equates Judas suffering in Hell, with Jesus also Dying for Judas, puts God in the their failure column.
Horrific blaspheme against God and hellbound-like sympathy for Satan, himself.
Your OP is A.) based on silence and B.) would require immediate censor and inquiry by church leadership, with church discipline for Doctrinal Heresy on the table, for their congragation to decide, if needed.
For Jesus to have Suffered for any sin other than those of His Elect, while also Punishing an unsaved soul for those sins in Hell, is double- jeopardy and that...did...not...happen...
Jesus is The Saviour.
"you", in the verse, are those who
were represented by the bread, when Jesus was to be Crucified.
The ones Jesus Gave His Body for, included the same, "you", of Saved Disciples, Jesus was Speaking AND Referring to.
One who equates Judas suffering in Hell, with Jesus also Dying for Judas, puts God in the their failure column.
Horrific blaspheme against God and hellbound-like sympathy for Satan, himself.
Your OP is A.) based on silence and B.) would require immediate censor and inquiry by church leadership, with church discipline for Doctrinal Heresy on the table, for their congragation to decide, if needed.
For Jesus to have Suffered for any sin other than those of His Elect, while also Punishing an unsaved soul for those sins in Hell, is double- jeopardy and that...did...not...happen...
Jesus is The Saviour.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
it is very interesting that thus far, on one has been able to really answer the OP, that in the Gospel of Luke, we have Jesus Christ, not only giving the bread and cup, that represents His body and blood on the cross, to Judas, but, that He also tells Judas, "“This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for YOU" (v.20). Now, there are some who have responded on this thread, by suggesting that the "YOU" here does not include Judas, but only the other 11. Is this the case? Lets look at the passage in Luke honestly, without our "theology". IF, the "YOU" does not include Judas, (and we know that Judas was at the table till after the Lord's Supper) then Jesus, Who is God and all-knowing, no doubt would have kown that Judas was about to betray Him, in fact He mentions this at the meal. To make things really clear, I have no doubt that Jesus would have waited for Judas to have left the room, which he did shortly after, and then, with the 11 only present, have given the Lord's Supper. The timing of Jesus' actions are very important, He made sure that Judas was present at the table, and that he also took the bread and cup, representing His death. And, told also Judas the words, as Matthew has it, "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (26:28). Also note, that the use of "many" here, must include Judas, and therefore includes ALL those who will not make it to heaven, and are lost. Commenting on this very word, "many", as used in Mark's Gospel, John Calvin says, "Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one" (on Mark 14:24).
It was then suggested by Bob (#69), that as the word "is" in Luke 22:21, is in italics (But behold, the hand of My betrayer is with Me on the table), that it is not in the original Greek, and does not count. And this is supposed to show that Judas was not present at the table, when the Lord's Supper given. I have answered this, by showing, that in the Greek text, verb παραδιδόντος, is in the "present tense" (see # 70), and the meaning is, "the hand of he who is betraying me, is still with me at the table". I also listed many English versions that now include "IS" as part of the normal text, based on the Greek of the whole sentence.
All of this has been ignored, and the attacks continue by those who will still hold to their "theology", and blatantly disregard what the Holy Bible has to say. I expect more railing and attacks, which I can well handle, but which shows the low depths these "reformed" folk will go to to try and discredit you and what you say, even though it it very plain Scripture. These same people complain about the JW's, but, in all honesty, the "reformed" are no different in their handling of the Word of God, on such issues as the OP, than the JW's are on Jesus Christ!
It was then suggested by Bob (#69), that as the word "is" in Luke 22:21, is in italics (But behold, the hand of My betrayer is with Me on the table), that it is not in the original Greek, and does not count. And this is supposed to show that Judas was not present at the table, when the Lord's Supper given. I have answered this, by showing, that in the Greek text, verb παραδιδόντος, is in the "present tense" (see # 70), and the meaning is, "the hand of he who is betraying me, is still with me at the table". I also listed many English versions that now include "IS" as part of the normal text, based on the Greek of the whole sentence.
All of this has been ignored, and the attacks continue by those who will still hold to their "theology", and blatantly disregard what the Holy Bible has to say. I expect more railing and attacks, which I can well handle, but which shows the low depths these "reformed" folk will go to to try and discredit you and what you say, even though it it very plain Scripture. These same people complain about the JW's, but, in all honesty, the "reformed" are no different in their handling of the Word of God, on such issues as the OP, than the JW's are on Jesus Christ!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
John 1:12-13, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
1 John 5:9-13, "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
You do agree that anyone who truely believes in God's Christ had changed one's mind to do so?
How could the fallen show evidence of having been granted repentance before being chosen for salvation? Utter nonsense.
Does anyone repent from "total inability?" Utter nonsense
What we get from Calvinists is massive verbiage and utter nonsense.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I love both!
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Rom 8:23
Me also.
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