The eternal subordination of the Word.

[37818]

Now what is not at issue and not being denied, is that the Word was God. Which is to be understood to mean that the Word to be God is eternally the uncreated God, never subotdinate in being God.

Now the Wprd's eternal subordination is in the fact the word is eternally "with the God," John 1:1-2. And this is said of the Word twice. [Now this Greek phrase, προς τον θεον, is used some 19 times in the New Testament of someone other than God. Twice the Word being said to be also someone other than God.]

2 John 1:9.

 

[JonC]

Now what is not at issue and not being denied, is that the Word was God. Which is to be understood to mean that the Word to be God is eternally the uncreated God, never subotdinate in being God.

Now the Wprd's eternal subordination is in the fact the word is eternally "with the God," John 1:1-2. And this is said of the Word twice. [Now this Greek phrase, προς τον θεον, is used some 19 times in the New Testament of someone other than God. Twice the Word being said to be also someone other than God.]

2 John 1:9.

Not only that, but the term "Word" (Logos) demonstrates this role. What the Word set aside was not Himself but the glory He shared with the Father (He became flesh).

 

[SavedByGrace]

"The eternal subordination of the Word" = unbiblical heresy!

 

[37818]

Not only that, but the term "Word" (Logos) demonstrates this role. What the Word set aside was not Himself but the glory He shared with the Father (He became flesh).

Well, not exactly. He as God never ceased being the glory of God, John 1:9, Hebrews 1:3, John 3:13 KJV. He changed how He was with God being a man on Earth.

 

[37818]

"The eternal subordination of the Word" = unbiblical heresy!

So are you denying the Word was always "with God?"

 

[tyndale1946]

"The eternal subordination of the Word" = unbiblical heresy!

Really?... And then there is this!... Brother Glen

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[SavedByGrace]

So are you denying the Word was always "with God?"

exactly WHAT has this to do with any "subordination"?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Really?... And then there is this!... Brother Glen

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

this is about Jesus earthly Ministry and has nothing to do with His eternal Kingdom.

Revelation 11:15 is very clear about Jesus' Kingdom and Rule:

"The kingdoms of the world have become our Lord's and his Christ’s and He shall Reign for ever and ever."

The Greek is very important here, the Greek verb, βασιλευσει, is in the singular number, which can either mean, Jesus shall Reign for ever and ever"; or, "Our Lord", which is "The Father", Reigns jointly with Jesus Christ. In any case, Jesus' Kingdom and Reign is Eternal, and co-equal with the Father!

 

[JonC]

Well, not exactly. He as God never ceased being the glory of God, John 1:9, Hebrews 1:3, John 3:13 KJV. He changed how He was with God being a man on Earth.

I disagree on that point (I read John 17:1-5 to indicate Christ having set aside a previous glory in becoming flesh to be restored again to that glory).

 

[SavedByGrace]

I disagree on that point (I read John 17:1-5 to indicate Christ having set aside a previous glory in becoming flesh to be restored again to that glory).

indeed! as it does in Luke 24:26, "Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?”

 

[JamesL]

I disagree on that point (I read John 17:1-5 to indicate Christ having set aside a previous glory in becoming flesh to be restored again to that glory).

Do you equate "becoming flesh" with "being made a little lower than the angels" ?

Hebrews 2:9
But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone

I see Him setting aside His glory to become a Suffering Servant. He became flesh to do that, but I don't think becoming flesh was the height of Him setting aside His glory

 

[SavedByGrace]

but I don't think becoming flesh was the height of Him setting aside His glory

Philippians 2:5-7 says exactly this

 

[SavedByGrace]

further to what I have said in #8, I would like to add, that in Revelation 22:1 and 3, we read:

"proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb", and "and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be therein"

In both verses the word "throne", is the Greek, in the singular number, showing that BOTH God and The Lamb are JOINTLY Reigning. Also, in both verses, we have , "του θεου και του αρνιου", literally, "The God and The Lamb", which shows that Two distinct Persons are meant, yet Their "Rule and Kingdom" are JOINTLY one and the same. This proves beyond any doubt, that Jesus Christ is NOT "subject" to The Father, as some wrongly suppose, from texts like 1 Corinthians 15:28, as Both The Father and The Son, are EQUAL RULERS.

 

[JamesL]

Philippians 2:5-7 says exactly this

Says exactly what?

 

[JonC]

Do you equate "becoming flesh" with "being made a little lower than the angels" ?

Hebrews 2:9
But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone

I see Him setting aside His glory to become a Suffering Servant. He became flesh to do that, but I don't think becoming flesh was the height of Him setting aside His glory

I do.

 

[37818]

exactly WHAT has this to do with any "subordination"?

Being "with the God" is being someone other than God. In John 1:1-2 the Word was both "with the God" and "was God." How He is not God is subordination.

 

[37818]

further to what I have said in #8, I would like to add, that in Revelation 22:1 and 3, we read:

"proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb", and "and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be therein"

In both verses the word "throne", is the Greek, in the singular number, showing that BOTH God and The Lamb are JOINTLY Reigning. Also, in both verses, we have , "του θεου και του αρνιου", literally, "The God and The Lamb", which shows that Two distinct Persons are meant, yet Their "Rule and Kingdom" are JOINTLY one and the same. This proves beyond any doubt, that Jesus Christ is NOT "subject" to The Father, as some wrongly suppose, from texts like 1 Corinthians 15:28, as Both The Father and The Son, are EQUAL RULERS.

But the Lamb is not God in the Revelation. Our Lord Jesus Christ is both being the Word.

 

[37818]

Jesus Christ never ceased being the true light, John 1:9, Hebrews 1:3, nor being God the uncaused Cause, Jobn 1:3, even on the cross, Hebrews 1:3.

 

[SavedByGrace]

How He is not God is subordination

what are you on about?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Says exactly what?

That Jesus, while on earth in as the God-Man, laid aside His Glory and Equality with the Father, for this time.