1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

To me, Jesus is Sinless, although He Divorced The Nation of Israel.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Alan Gross, Nov 7, 2020.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,632
    Likes Received:
    461
    Faith:
    Baptist
    To me, Jesus is sinless, although He Divorsed The Nation of Israel.

    "Divorce" means SHE IS NOT HIS WIFE, because "Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife:.....Deuteronomy 24: 1-4:

    "When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance."
     
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    what have the two got to do with each other?
     
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,157
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Wrong. That old whore killed her husband, Christ the King!


    7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
    24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Rev 18


    35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Mt 23


    15
    And for this cause he is the mediator of a new covenant, that a death having taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, they that have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
    16 For where a testament is, there must of necessity be the death of him that made it.
    17 For a testament is of force where there hath been death: for it doth never avail while he that made it liveth. Heb 9
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,315
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    LOL, those in the body of Christ comprise "all Israel" so we are looking forward as the bride of Christ.

    Romans 9:6
    But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

    Romans 11:26
    and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
    “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
    HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,632
    Likes Received:
    461
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nation
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,315
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What verse says Jesus divorced the nation. The promise was not made to all the blood descendants of Abraham, but to believing people regardless of their blood line. (Romans 9:6)
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,632
    Likes Received:
    461
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Jewish Nation was the 'chosen people' as God's witnesses that He used.

    They fell away into apostasy; He divorced them.

    That Old Testament witness was ended along with the Temple worship, etc., completely, in A.D. 70.

    "Lo, I Turn to the Gentiles". Jesus Committed to His churches the Ministry of being His Witnesses of the Oracles of God, Manifold Wisdom, and Whole Counsel of God.

    The faithful of the Old Testament and New Testament witnesses for God are His Bride.

    The Saved Remnant of both (which are also the Spiritual Israel...yet, not Faithful in His Commands to Serve and Worship Him) are not at issue, nor is The Jewish Nation, who are no longer His Chosen Witness and people and never will be.

    They are the barren fig tree.

    Promises to 'Israel' are what you have said: God's Elect of The One Covenant of Godly Giving Grace, from Eternity Past.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,315
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am sorry Sir, but you did not provide a passage or verse of scripture indicating God's Old Testament "chosen people" were all the blood descendants of Abraham. God's chosen people are those God put into Abraham's bosom to await the death of Christ.
    I think you have nothing but conjecture based on mistaken assumptions.
     
  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,493
    Likes Received:
    470
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts; Hosea 2:2

    And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. Jer 3:8

    Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt. And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali. For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name. And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely. And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD Hosea 2:14-20

    And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled Col 1:21
     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,632
    Likes Received:
    461
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "And in that day", AS WELL AS, THE PHRASE, "AFTER THESE THINGS", or "in that Day" indicates our present time, "the last days".

    We are in the Last Days of The Kingdom of The Son, in the Age of Churches.

    The fallen booth or tent of David are God's Organized Faithful He is Re-Building.

    On this Rock of Ages, I BUILD/ Edify/ Teach/ Mature to Serve My churches which Jesus Founded and Organized out of the 'material' provided by John The Baptist, which was...?...Baptised Believers. They were the first members of Jesus' church He Built.

    ( The Protestant notion of "all are in the church" is not to be found in The Bible; every instance of a 'church' mentioned has always meant a local congregation that assembles; sometimes in the generic sence which makes 'the church' equal to 'churches' with the article dropped, just like other generic usages, i.e., the husband of one wife = the husbands of one wife).

    Those that were divorced were The Chosen Nation of Israel, as God's Witness.

    Those that were Saved (Spiritual Israel) remained Saved.

    The New Testament Witness of David's tent, tabernacle, i.e., The Lord's Churches, INCLUDES FAITHFUL JEWS TO JESUS' CHURCHES, in Worship and Service.

    Hosea is speaking of marrying, in the final stage of The Kingdom of God, after Jesus Returns and Offers Up The Kingdom to The Father, the Faithful Jewish Remnant that Worships in and through a Scripturally Organized church of Jesus, along with The Gentiles of His Faithful in His churches, which, together, make up His Bride.

    "And I will betroth thee unto me forever" takes place at The Marriage Supper of The Lamb.

    There will be a 'general assembly' of Saved outside The Old Testament and New Testament modes of being Faithful Witnesses and God' will betroth Jesus Bride: 'The Church of The First Born' ARE The Old Testament and New Testament FAITHFUL Saints to God's Commands on His Worship modes who have been Faithful Witnesses.

    'Divorce' is not sin.
    ....
    The Prophecies of The Kingdom of The Son are a VAST body of Teaching.

    Picture all the portions of The Bible that 'mill'-enthusiasts are told to and tell others, "ignore these Passages", because they don't pertain to us, now".

    Three-Fourths of The Bible? Most of The Old Testament and Gospels and New Testament Books and Revelation. Satan pretty much says, "leave it alone", and so, 'mill-aficionados do(?).

    However, as I said, "in the last times" or "in that day" refer to Old Testament Prophecies BEING FULFILLED in Jesus Christ and in The Churches "Like" (as) He Built.

    His "Kind" of church organization. What "Kind" of House Will You Build? Isaiah 66:1-2

    [​IMG]

    Old Testament Prophecies CAN be followed, without adopting the Model of a 'church' being local only, however, that is not the full depth of their Teachings/

    ...and being told to 'stay out of them' and miss-'interpreting' them as something in the distant future or unattainable past are both giving up on God's Message that Jesus is Returning again AND that God is to Be Brought Glory IN HIS CHURCHES.

    Those Old Testament Prophecies with "And in that day", AS WELL AS, THE PHRASE, "AFTER THESE THINGS", or "in that Day" indicates our present time, "the last days", THIS PRESENT AGE, The Kingdom of The Son, (Isaiah 61:2a "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD),

    Now is The Day of Salvation;

    "Behold the Days are Coming" Jeremiah 31.

    and, then, AFTER JESUS' RETURN: The Day of The Lord, The Age to Come, The Kingdom of The Father, manifest, full-grown, an Eternal Season of reward and retribution, an Endless Day of rest and Glory ( Isaiah 61:2b "and the day of vengeance of our God") THE CONSUMMATION of The Age (2 Peter 3:1-13), The End of The World the eschaton, the Final State, the Eternal World to Come, in the Afterlife (Isaiah 65:18;19).
     
    #10 Alan Gross, Nov 10, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,467
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There are Non-Protestant Baptists who would disagree on this point of interpretation, in that, the local churches do make up the One Body, the temple of God, which is Christ's church singular. Matthew 16:18, Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Corinthians 12:13.
     
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,632
    Likes Received:
    461
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It doesn't fit.

    Going through each instance of the word, "church" allows for the local assembly, that the word means, to be the One Interpretation.

    Matthew 16:18, Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Corinthians 12:13, can and have been dealt with and seen to indicate the One Kind of Church that Jesus Built.

    Sure, Satan sold the 'universal invisible' lie to Protestants and ignorant non-Protestant folks, after the Catholic, 'Universal Visible' lie, however, it took Satan 1600 to 1800 hundred years to pawn it off.

    My paraphrase, as to 'How Matthew 16:18 should be 'read':


    And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (clay, a pebble, a small stone),

    and upon this rock (The Rock of Ages, The Cheif Cornerstone, Jesus, a LARGE Fragment or FOUNDATION Slab of Stone)

    I will build (continue to Edify, Re-Building the 'booth' and 'tent' and 'tabernacle of David, to Restore the FALLEN DAVIDIC DYNASTY)

    my (Jesus' KIND of )

    church (assembly, called out and BAPTISED WITH THE BAPTISM OF JOHN'S WITH AUTHORITY FROM GOD);

    and the gates of hell (Supernatural Evil Influence and Power)

    shall not prevail against it. ( Jesus' churches, of the KIND He Built from Baptised Believers, Baptised by The Authority of God ARE PROMISED HIS SUPERINTENDANCE BY ANOTHER COMFORTER, TO Be on Earth throughout all Ages, World without End.)


    My paraphrase, as to 'How Ephesians 4:4-6 should be 'read':

    4There is one (Kind of local, assembling, congregated, Divinely Organized) body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    5One Lord, one faith, one baptism
    (water),

    6One God and Father of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


    My paraphrase, as to 'How 1 Corinthians 12:13 should be 'read':

    13 For by one Spirit are we (Believers in Corinth Supernaturally Enabled and Guided to follow the Lord's Example and Command are)

    all


    (Led to be water)
    baptized into one body (There is one (Kind of local, assembling, congregated, Divinely Organized) body), whether we be Jews or Greeks {Gentiles}, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink (in Salvation) into one Spirit.

    (We believers at Corinth have been Saved by The Same Spirit,
    so we can BE LED TO ASSEMBLE, TOGETHER, BY The Same Holy Spirit )


    Again: For by one Spirit are we (Believers in Corinth Supernaturally Enabled and Guided to follow the Lord's Example and Command are) all (Led to be water) baptized into one body (There is one (Kind of local, assembling, congregated, Divinely Organized) body), whether we be Jews or Greeks {Gentiles}, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink ( in Salvation) into one Spirit.
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,467
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A few things to note. There is no such thing as "The Baptiist Church." There are Baptist churches made up of water and Holy Spirit baptized believers.

    ! Corinthians was written to the Corithian Christians.

    And your understanding of the visable church singlular of born again believes is not the sole understanding held by Bapatists.
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,632
    Likes Received:
    461
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am talking about, "what God would have us to understand?", from The Bible, in the One Spiritual Interpretation of the specific Passages.

    To start with, we should be aware, to some degree, what we are saying.

    Here we add and find that there are 'two baptisms' mentioned.

    'Two', not 'One Baptism'.
    ...

    Pronouncements don't carry much weight when they impeach themselves.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
Loading...