Your legalism and insistence on works salvation is what Paul said is "not really a gospel at all." You need to own you salvation by works teaching.
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Does God Prevent Some from Hearing The Gospel?
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
- Start date
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" ( Ephesians 1:3-11 )
Please read it carefully, SBG.
This is where I see that not only does God do all things according to His own purposes and grace, but saves people according to that as well.
This is not the only place, but merely one of them.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
so according to you, in 2020, the Confessions of faith of the past Reformed Church, are null and void. The understadning of salvation that requires both repentance and faith, as taught by even A W Pink, and other reformers, is wrong. And modern folk like you have got it all right!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Sure they are.
Starting with Romans 1, Paul is addressing the believers at Rome.
In Romans 8, he begins to develop election:
Romans 8:28-39, and asks the question, " Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect...?" in Romans 8:33.
Romans 9 carries through and gets into the "meat" of it, and tells us that God has created vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy.
Romans 10 tells us some of what is the means to God notifying His elect of their gift of eternal life...preaching.
Romans 11 speaks of Israel and a remnant according to the election of grace, and also addresses Gentile believers as such starting at Romans 11:13.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
lets look at a couple of the verses that you have shared
"according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" You see the word "that"? This means the reason for God choosing us, "in order that we should be holy and without blame"
"having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will". Here the "predestination" is said to be "to adoption", which is what takes place AFTER the sinner is saved>
Would you care to comment on what I have said in the OP, where Jesus CHOOSES to use something rather "softer" than what John does from Isaiah 6, and even what Isaiah wrote?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
How does 10 start
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, let's do that.
Amen.
Now...do you see that phrase, " chosen in Him from the foundation of the world"?
Both statements are linked together into a single purpose...
God chose a people in Christ from the foundation of the world, so that they should be holy and without blame before Him in love.
One half cannot exist without the other half of the verse being included.
Wouldn't you agree?
Here the passage clearly develops that, with Ephesians 1:4 in mind and continuing on, God chose a people in Christ from the foundation of the world, so that they would be holy and without blame before Him in love.
He then, after choosing them in Christ from the foundation of the world, they were then additionally predestinated to their adoption as God's children.
How?
By Jesus Christ to Himself.
Here Paul is telling the Ephesians believers the work that God has done on their behalf since the foundation of the world.
Their being chosen in Him was made then, and their being told about it through the preaching of the Gospel happened in real time ( Ephesians 1:13 ).
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I can agree that the sinner becomes elect and a child of God after they are saved
Dave G
Well-Known Member
With Romans 9 already fully in view, and Paul's sincere desire for Israel that they be saved:
" Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them." ( Romans 10:1-5 ).
In verse 2 he "bears them record" ( serves as a witness ) that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Verse 3 tells me the reason for it...that they being ignorant of God's righteousness and trying to establish their own righteousness, had not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
Verse 4 develops that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believes.
Verse 5 says that Moses describes the righteousness which is of the Law, that the man which does those things shall live by them ( see James 2:10 ).
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sbg, all can see that I share scripture with you. This has nothing to do with a denominational confession so you don't have that crutch to lean on.so according to you, in 2020, the Confessions of faith of the past Reformed Church, are null and void. The understadning of salvation that requires both repentance and faith, as taught by even A W Pink, and other reformers, is wrong. And modern folk like you have got it all right!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
You may, but I don't see that anywhere in God's word, sir.
To me, that is your own conclusion, just as to you, my position is my own conclusion.
Respectfully,
You are of course free to teach and believe whatever you wish, SBG.
We both must answer to God for our actions.
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
See it mentions the Jews as the main recipients of what Paul is saying
That is not what God tells us, however. The sinner is elect before the foundation of the world. Predestined to salvation at the time designated by God.
This is by God's Sovereign authority and ordination. This truth seems to cause you to fight against the bit.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I disagree.
It mentions the Jews as having a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
That's why I broke it down for you in post # 50.
Do you not see that?
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Then WHAT is the purpose of preaching the Gospel at all???
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 and how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! " ( Romans 10:14-15 ).
It is God's means to call His children out of darkness and into the light of His grace, my friend.
The Gospel is not an offer, it's a promise made to only those that will believe it ( John 3:16-21 ).
Who will believe?
John 6:37-40.
John 6:64-65.
John 10:26-27.
John 17:2.
Acts of the Apostles 13:48.
These, among many, tells us why some believe it, and why most do not.
Do you believe the Gospel, deep down and with the full realization that you've done absolutely nothing to earn your place at His table, SBG?
Then praise God for His kindness...
for you have been shown His grace and mercy, which was given to you in Christ Jesus before the world began ( 2 Timothy 1:9 ).
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
You have committed the fallacy of making God the source of evil. I never claimed to believe such a thing and scripture denies that as a possibility.
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 offers one source of “blindness” and Romans 1:18-32 offers another source of “blindness”.
God is the source of Light, not Darkness.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Did you bother to read the OP? I have clearly shown from Scripture that people close their own eyes to the Gospel
Obedience to the King.
Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inthe name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
2 Corinthians 5:18-21
All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Do you see the command as well as the Sovereign work of God?
If you cannot accept what God reveals in His word because you have created your own version, that is something in which you will answer to God.