Featured Question on 2 Corinthians 13:5

How exactly do we "test ourselves" to see if we are in the faith?

Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test? NIV

Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith. NLT

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! ESV

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? KJV

 

Do ya'll (yes I'm from Alabama) think that repentance from sin/seeking righteousness/obedience and works are part of the test?

By this I mean, if I can habitually commit a sin and neither fall under conviction that leads to repentance or discipline does that mean I've failed the test?

Consider the following passages (all in the ESV)

1 John 2:4-5 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:

1 John 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him

1 John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Hebrews 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works

Are obedience, repentance, discipline and works along with love (1 John 1:8) the ways in which we test our faith to see if it is a "living faith" or a "dead faith"(which does not save-James 2:14)?

Not that any of those things "save us" but lack of those things can show us that we are "not in the faith"?

 

I made it clear that righteousness doesn't come by the law. We aren't saved by anything but faith through grace. Hopefully that is something that all Baptist can agree upon.

My questions is not about being made righteous by anything other than faith in Christ.

My question is about how we know our faith is real? How do we know it is a saving faith?

According to 1 John 3:6 "No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him"

Romans 3:20 says For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Romans Chapter 2 is about how the Jews had the law and the gentiles had the "natural Law"(Romans 2:14). Both give us the "knowledge of sin".

Keeping neither the Mosaic Law or the Natural Law "makes us right with God". However, we can't ignore the fact the Word tells us that if we "keep on sinning" we haven't seen Him or know Him.

And yes, we all keep on sinning. It is clear (at least to me) that this is referring to obstinate refusal to admit our sins, confess of our sins, and repent of our sins. John makes it clear in 1 John 1:8-10 that 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Our faith fails the test if we refuse to admit our sins and/or we keep on sinning. 1 John 3:9 goes as far as to say it is impossible to keep practicing sin and be "born of God" No one born of God makes a practice of sinning for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

It would seem to me that if someone isn't struggling against sin, if they keep on practicing sin without either falling under conviction that leads to repentance or discipline then that shows the test of 2 Corinthians 13:5 has failed. He hasn't been born of God, he has never seen Him or knows Him.

I'm not suggestive we start judging other people. But if someone wants to know "Do I pass the test?" it is very clear that "do you keep on sinning" is one of the questions to ask.

 

When I realized that 1 John was about evidence of genuine faith it totally changed my understanding of 2 Cor 13:5

 

That whoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.

But believing isn't just agreeing that Jesus is the Christ. Even the Demons believe that there is a God. If that is the kind of belief we have all we qualify for is to be a demon. (I heard a preacher say that one time).

The historical teaching of being saved by faith alone is that we are 100% saved by faith through grace and we do not merit salvation by anything we do "of ourselves".

However, the historical teaching of being saved by faith alone is that being saved changes us. Being saved is such a life changing event, a heart changing event, a "new creation" event (2 Corinthians 5:17) that is changes everything about us. It changes what we love, it changes our desires, it changes our purpose.

And if we have truly been saved and are "new creations" then those changes will become evident not only internally in our "heart" but externally in how we live our life. Because we still have a sin nature we will struggle against sin but by God's grace our goal (because we have been saved) is what Paul writes about in Romans 6. We become slaves of righteousness

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

 

After thinking about this topic I decided I needed to make something more clear.

I believe external actions are a test of true faith but they aren't the only test. A person can be "religious" and do "religious things" and not pass the test. We aren't saved by our actions. We are saved by faith.

What we do need to do, in my opinion, is be careful of the extremes when we test our faith.

One extreme is that any profession of faith, any experience of proclaiming faith, is real and genuine. Just because we say we believe something doesn't mean we actually believe it. I can believe I love my wife but if I treat her like garbage then I don't really love my wife.

The other extreme is legalism where we test our faith solely on our actions. The status of our faith rest on how many check boxes we can tick off. Do I go to church every week, Check. Do I give my tithe, Check. Did I read my Bible everyday, Check.

We tell ourselves "Well, I must be a true Christian because I'm doing all those things."

I believe a true "Test" is to both look internally at our "Heart" and externally at our "actions".

If I say I believe in my heart then I need to look at my actions to see if they line up with my stated belief. If I"m not living by the faith I proclaim to believe then I don't really have faith.

I also need to look at my actions and determine if I'm doing those things out of some obligation in order to be right with God or religious moral teaching or cultural reasons (to make my wife happy, or so people will not think I'm a jerk) then I don't really have faith. I have religion.

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify those thoughts. I didn't want anyone to think that "works" are the only way to "test our faith".

 

Yes.