Have we turned the sinner's prayer into a sacrament???

[Scripture More Accurately]

Should we be assuring people who come forward and say the sinners prayer that they are saved?

I am not aware of any Scripture that answers this question directly. Because that seems to be the case, we have to pray and ask God for wisdom about what to do in dealing with people on an individual basis. The right response may be different in dealing with different people.

More broadly, what we should be doing in discipling those who say that they have believed is a big subject that would take this thread in a different direction than what your topic is.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Concerning your question about whether we should be assuring people who come forward and say the sinners prayer that they are saved, to at least some people, Christ gave immediate assurance to them of their genuine salvation:

Luke 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. 49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? 50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:41 Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight. 42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Some may debate whether Luke 18:42 is speaking of salvation or his healing; it likely refers to both.

Whether or not we should do the same thing (as Christ did) with those who make professions is debatable, but these passages may provide at least some support for doing so.

 

[Marooncat79]

Yes it always has been

 

[lanman87]

Whether or not we should do the same thing (as Christ did) with those who make professions is debatable, but these passages may provide at least some support for doing so.

Another consideration is that we are not "Christ" we cannot know the innermost being of anyone. All we can do is make presumptions based on a combination of what they say and what they do. Ultimately, each of us must "test overselves" to see if we are in the faith.

 

[Van]

Concerning your question about whether we should be assuring people who come forward and say the sinners prayer that they are saved, to at least some people, Christ gave immediate assurance to them of their genuine salvation:

Luke 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. 49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? 50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:41 Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight. 42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Some may debate whether Luke 18:42 is speaking of salvation or his healing; it likely refers to both.

Whether or not we should do the same thing (as Christ did) with those who make professions is debatable, but these passages may provide at least some support for doing so.

Sorry but Christ knew whether or not those individuals were saved, but we would just be guessing.

 

[Van]

Another consideration is that we are not "Christ" we cannot know the innermost being of anyone. All we can do is make presumptions based on a combination of what they say and what they do. Ultimately, each of us must "test ourselves" to see if we are in the faith.

Scripture tells us to examine ourselves periodically (at communion) to see if we are "of the faith." Therefore, as long as we are physically alive we are to test ourselves. We are to look at our own fruit. And if we find we bear no fruit, such as fruit of the Spirit, we should question whether we really have gone "all in" for Christ.

And as pointed out many times, good works provide proof of our salvation, good works does not provide nor sustain salvation. We are kept by the power of God, 1 Peter 1:3-5.

 

[atpollard]

Thoughts????

Not in the case of my personal salvation.
I repeated no “sinner’s prayer”, nor was I baptized until a decade later due to circumstances.

From my perspective, John 3:18, Romans 10:9-10 and Ephesians 2:1-10 paint the clearest picture of how one gets from “point A” to “point B”.

 

[Van]

Matthew 3:10
“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 13:23
“And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

Luke 6:44
“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush.

John 15:2
“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

John 15:8
“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Scripture tells us to examine ourselves periodically (at communion) to see if we are "of the faith." Therefore, as long as we are physically alive we are to test ourselves. We are to look at our own fruit. And if we find we bear no fruit, such as fruit of the Spirit, we should question whether we really have gone "all in" for Christ.

And as pointed out many times, good works provide proof of our salvation, good works does not provide nor sustain salvation. We are kept by the power of God, 1 Peter 1:3-5.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Yes it always has been

What has always been?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Another consideration is that we are not "Christ" we cannot know the innermost being of anyone. All we can do is make presumptions based on a combination of what they say and what they do. Ultimately, each of us must "test overselves" to see if we are in the faith.

Yes, this difference between us and Christ is one of the reasons that I qualified what I said about what we should do. I am still searching Scripture for more revelation that might be relevant to answering this question.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Sorry but Christ knew whether or not those individuals were saved, but we would just be guessing.

Yes, He knew for sure what their state was in a way that we cannot. I am not convinced at this point what that difference signifies concerning what our practice should be.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Scripture tells us to examine ourselves periodically (at communion) to see if we are "of the faith." Therefore, as long as we are physically alive we are to test ourselves. We are to look at our own fruit. And if we find we bear no fruit, such as fruit of the Spirit, we should question whether we really have gone "all in" for Christ.

And as pointed out many times, good works provide proof of our salvation, good works does not provide nor sustain salvation. We are kept by the power of God, 1 Peter 1:3-5.

What Scripture teaches us that at communion we are to examine ourselves to see if we are "of the faith"?

 

[Marooncat79]

1 Cor 11:25-30 esp 27-29

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

1 Cor 11:25-30 esp 27-29

I have been saved for 31 years and have taken communion regularly all of those years. I have never thought that this passage teaches me that I have to examine myself to see if I am a believer.

1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

In context, the examination spoken of in 11:28 is a self-examination to ensure that one does not eat the bread and drink the cup unworthily, as spoken of in 11:27. I do not think that means that every believer has to examine himself each time he takes communion to see if he is saved.

 

[atpollard]

I, too, have heard 1 Corinthians 11:28 used as an "alter call" passage.
I agree that the context does not support that as the intention of the author:

[1 Corinthians 11:17-34 NASB]
17 But in giving this instruction, I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you. 20 Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper, 21 for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 25 In the same way [He took] the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink [it,] in remembrance of Me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.

27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

33 So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 If anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, so that you will not come together for judgment. The remaining matters I will arrange when I come.​

 

[Van]

What Scripture teaches us that at communion we are to examine ourselves to see if we are "of the faith"?

Rom 14:22
The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

1Corinthians 3:13
each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.

1Corinthians 11:28
But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

The issue is not whether we examine ourselves at each communion, the command it is to examine ourselves often, perhaps each day, when we "confess" our sins.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Rom 14:22
The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

1Corinthians 3:13
each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.

1Corinthians 11:28
But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

The issue is not whether we examine ourselves at each communion, the command it is to examine ourselves often, perhaps each day, when we "confess" our sins.

These passages are not talking about examining yourself about whether you are saved or not. They are talking about the need to make sure that any sins known to a believer that he has committed as a believer have been confessed to God and dealt with properly.

 

[Van]

These passages are not talking about examining yourself about whether you are saved or not. They are talking about the need to make sure that any sins known to a believer that he has committed as a believer have been confessed to God and dealt with properly.

You would need to provide an explanation for testing ourselves to see if we are of the faith, if not to see if we are of the faith.

We consider our core beliefs and commitments. Do we love Jesus with all our heart, or like the third soil of Matthew 13, do we share our heart with love for worldly treasures? Do we stand firm with Jesus when the going gets tough. Or like the second soil, do we run for cover? Do we depend on God or on our own understanding? Do we pray and meditate over God's word seeking to understand and apply it to our lives? Or are we lip service Christians, but actually seek the honor of people? Do we try to build up our siblings in Christ or do we ridicule other believers to make ourselves look good, like the Pharisee's view of the Publican, Luke 18:11-14
2 Corinthians 13:5
Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You would need to provide an explanation for testing ourselves to see if we are of the faith, if not to see if we are of the faith.

We consider our core beliefs and commitments. Do we love Jesus with all our heart, or like the third soil of Matthew 13, do we share our heart with love for worldly treasures? Do we stand firm with Jesus when the going gets tough. Or like the second soil, do we run for cover? Do we depend on God or on our own understanding? Do we pray and meditate over God's word seeking to understand and apply it to our lives? Or are we lip service Christians, but actually seek the honor of people? Do we try to build up our siblings in Christ or do we ridicule other believers to make ourselves look good, like the Pharisee's view of the Publican, Luke 18:11-14
2 Corinthians 13:5
Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

It seems that we differ radically in our understanding of what it means to be saved. I believe that someone who is truly saved is saved once-for-all and can never lose his salvation. To hold that I have to test myself on a regular basis to see if I am in the faith is tantamount to asserting that we can never really be sure that we are saved.

We might be saved ("pass the test") on one day and three weeks, three months, or three years later we have to pass the test again to see if we are saved? No way!

Whatever 2 Corinthians 13:5 is teaching, it is not teaching that I can never really be sure that I am saved because I'm going to have keep testing myself over and over and over and over again throughout my Christian life to see if I am actually saved.

Either you believe that someone is saved once-for-all and can know that he truly is saved (1 John 5:13, etc.) or you believe that no one can really know for sure that they are saved because even though they think that they are saved now, some time later they might still "fail the test." For me, the former is unquestionably what the Bible teaches.

 

[Van]

It seems that we differ radically in our understanding of what it means to be saved. I believe that someone who is truly saved is saved once-for-all and can never lose his salvation. To claim that I have to test myself to see if I am in the faith on a regular basis is tantamount to asserting that we can never really be sure that we are saved.

We might be saved ("pass the test") on one day and three weeks later we have to pass the test again to see if we are saved? No way!

Whatever 2 Corinthians 13:5 is teaching, it is not teaching that I can never really be sure that I am saved because I'm going to have keep testing myself over and over and over and over again throughout my Christian life to see if I am actually saved.

Either you believe that someone is saved once-for-all and can know that he truly is saved (1 John 5:13, etc.) or you believe that no one can really know for sure that they are saved because even though they think that are saved now, some time later they might still "fail the test." For me, the former is unquestionably what the Bible teaches.

Once again a poster invents an unbiblical position, and claims it is my position without a quote. This tactic of endless false charges is calculated to derail any discussion of the actual biblical view presented.

1) He denies we are to test ourselves to see if we are of the faith, after 2 Corinthians 13:5 was cited. Thus denial of the obvious and assertion of absurdity.

2) Next, if we think we passed the test once, there is no need to test subsequently, again presenting absurdity rather than scripture.

3) This poster ignores progressive sanctification as if he did not believe in it.