1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured John R. Rice, Jack Hyles, and the KJV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Jan 4, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 5 of 7
  1. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My take is Hyles wanted to be the role model for pastors. For years he championed the busing ministry. Due to oil shortages and changes in the economy, busing fell out of favor. So, he moved over to the KJVO movement.
     
    #81 Squire Robertsson, Jan 14, 2021
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,638
    Likes Received:
    1,834
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But if a portion of the Bible is quoted in Shakespeare, the Bible somehow loses its power, according to what you wrote.
     
    #82 John of Japan, Jan 15, 2021
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Bible always remains the same....
     
    #83 Yeshua1, Jan 15, 2021
  4. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No the Bible looses it's power after translators turn Scripture into just another body of writing like Shakespeare did. The Holy Spirit is not limited because of that. The power is limited because of that.

    The Bible is just a book in the regards to power any ways. A human still has to be obedient to God to have any power. Are some translations acts of disobedience would be another angle to look at preservation.
     
    #84 timtofly, Jan 16, 2021
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,638
    Likes Received:
    1,834
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I could not disagree more. If the Bible can lose (not "loose") its power by any means, then that means that God can lose His power, and that is extremely bad theology, and besides, it contradicts the Bible itself in Heb. 4:12, "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

    At what point does a translation become an "act of disobedience"? Some people in Norway I know about are doing a translation into Rohingya, a language with no Bible. They are probably doing it with dynamic equivalence from a critical text. Is that disobedience?
     
    #85 John of Japan, Jan 16, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  6. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Saying that every translation has power is not the logical outcome of God claiming His Word is all powerful. That would include the works of Shakespeare as well.

    Why argue intent on the basis of need?

    If a Translation is necessary to correct God's Word that is suspect intent. There is no need to correct God's Word. When a human steps up and says my translation is what God intended and necessary to correct other historical works, that is suspect to God's ability to preserve His Word throughout history.
     
    #86 timtofly, Jan 16, 2021
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,638
    Likes Received:
    1,834
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You did not answer my questions concerning at what specific point a Bible translation becomes disobedient, and whether or not a certain missionary translation is disobedient. I will assume then that (a) you cannot answer, or (b) you don't comprehend the questions, or (c) it upsets your narrative so that you will not answer.
     
    #87 John of Japan, Jan 18, 2021
  8. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It would be when the commentary contradicts or changes God's Word. Would one intentionally mislead the readers in their very first ability to read God's Word? If they intend to only push theology, instead of God's Word, then shame on them.
     
    #88 timtofly, Jan 18, 2021
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,638
    Likes Received:
    1,834
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I didn't ask anything about commentaries, but about a missionary Bible translation.
     
    #89 John of Japan, Jan 19, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, would mean not as accurate, but still word of the Lord to them in their native language, and the Holy Spirit will have no problem in getting that message across!
     
    #90 Yeshua1, Jan 19, 2021
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,638
    Likes Received:
    1,834
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Maybe I should ask a different question, since you won't answer the other one. At what point, then, does the Word of God lose it's power:

    1. In the manuscripts of the original languages of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.
    2. In the early English translations.
    3. In the 1611 revision of previous English translations
    4. In any translation of the KJV into other languages.
    5. In any translation from something other than the KJV into other languages.
    6. In any translation from the original languages into a foreign languages.

    Surely you must have some kind of criteria for how and when the Bible loses it's power.
     
    #91 John of Japan, Jan 19, 2021
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And when does the Holy Spirit cease being God in this?
     
    #92 Yeshua1, Jan 19, 2021
  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,638
    Likes Received:
    1,834
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why are you asking me? Ask him. :)
     
    #93 John of Japan, Jan 19, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,396
    Likes Received:
    672
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It's clear to me that Hyles didn't bring anything new to the KJVO table. seems he simply became Ruckman's homeboy. The KJVO jive he published had been out for awhile.

    Given some other aspects of his life after Rice's death, his actions on behalf of the KJVO myth helps show show that the ultimate daddy of it was Satan. instead of seeing what the AV makers wrote in their preface, seems Hyles just took the word of a quack-Ruckman-for it.
     
    #94 robycop3, Jan 19, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Where did Ruckman get his theological degree from?
     
    #95 Yeshua1, Jan 19, 2021
  16. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    BJU according to wiki.
     
    #96 Squire Robertsson, Jan 19, 2021
  17. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It seems to me that Hyles's position that you can't be saved out of a Bible other than the KJV is distinct and different from Ruckman. I could be wrong, but I am not aware that Peter Ruckman ever taught that.
    From all accounts, it seems Jack Hyles descended into a moral abyss in his last years (perhaps some of it was a problem earlier, but hidden, I wouldn't know). However, if we judge any doctrine based on some supporter traveling down a low moral road, we could probably disprove every Christian doctrine.
     
    #97 rlvaughn, Jan 19, 2021
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,396
    Likes Received:
    672
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Bob Jones U.
     
    #98 robycop3, Jan 20, 2021
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,396
    Likes Received:
    672
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ruckman DID definitely teach that the KJV corrects its sources by its "advanced revelation"!

    He IMPLIED that salvation comes only from the Gospel as presented in the KJV, saying the KJV is the final authority in all matters of faith & worship. But NO; far as I know, he never outright SAID salvation comes only thru the KJV.

    He also taught MULTIPLE plans of salvation!
     
    #99 robycop3, Jan 20, 2021
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,638
    Likes Received:
    1,834
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Actually, to the best of my knowledge, his PhD from BJU was in education. Late in life he claimed a BD and a ThM, but I suspect those were from degree mills, since you can't (or at least I can't) find anything on the Internet or in his books that tell the schools.
     
    #100 John of Japan, Jan 20, 2021
Page 5 of 7
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...