Featured Biblical vs Reformed Salvation

Where do you see that in that passage?

 

Ooh ... scripture pong.

 

I disagree.
To me, the clearest order of salvation is found in Romans 8:29-30.

I agree, and I see this as a true statement," whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
But when the Bible is examined more closely, I find that there are other "qualifiers" that Scripture includes as to who will call upon Him:

1) Only those who call upon Him in truth ( Psalms 145:18 ).
2) Only those who call upon Him out of a pure heart ( 2 Timothy 2:22 ).

Therefore, as I see it, a person does not call upon the Lord to "get saved", but because they are saved and are already born again.
In other words, their heart has been changed, their willful rejection of God's words has been taken away, and they now respond to God willingly in the other direction;
Instead of automatically rejecting Him and His ways, they now embrace His words and ways, despite their stumbling around in the flesh, which weighs them down like a stone.

A stone that only the power of the Holy Spirit can lift for them.

I agree, except I don't see God waiting for them to invoke Christ's name in order to save them, but because He was already working a work in their hearts.

Again I agree.

Here I clearly see that like Lydia ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ), these people's hearts were opened so that they then believed what was being preached, and that belief of the words then caused them to see their plight and they repented and were baptized.

 

I disagree.
To me, it is very clear from many passages, and some out-right blatant statements in Scripture, that the sinner that is saved before they repent and believe.
Here is a partial list:

Psalms 65:4.
John 3:36.
John 5:24.
John 6:39.
John 6:65.
John 17:2.
Acts of the Apostles 2:39.
Acts of the Apostles 2:47.
Acts of the Apostles 13:48.
Romans 8:29-30.
Romans 9:6-24.
Romans 10:16-20.
Romans 11:5-8.
1 Corinthians 1:18.
Ephesians 1:4-6.
Ephesians 2:10.
Philippians 1:29.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.
Revelation 17:8.

May God bless you greatly as you consider what I have presented.

 

Tranlsation: "The Bible passage which, by virtue of its correlative language to Calvinistic philosophy, most fortuitously lends itself to being molded into the Calvinistic mold, is Romans 8:29-30".

 

It does not say that God chose them to be saved. The whole passage is talking about how they reject the truth.

 

No, I LOVE the truth found in scripture. I have just seldom observed an exchange of single verses ripped from their context leading to TRUTH. So this game of Scripture pong is unlikely to yield “Scripture truth”.

 

Technically, DaveG is not a Calvinist. He just agrees with the conclusions of TULIP for personal reasons based on his own bible study without any outside Reformed influences.

 

Technically, I'm not a non-Calvinist, I just disagree with the conclusions of TULIP for personal reasons based on my own Bible study without any outside non-reformed influences

 

The difference being that nobody translated your post by claiming it was a Calvinist (or Arminian) manifesto.

 

Just look at those words again, slowly. A literal reversing of Bible truth - and spoken with all the gravity of a great-horned owl.

 

Godly sorrow from a changed heart, does indeed produce repentance.
Here it is, as I see it, in context:
Remember verse 1 of chapter 7?

" Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." ( 2 Corinthians 7:1 ).

Here I see Paul speaking to the believers at Corinth.
Clarified, that means he was writing to believers who had already experienced the new birth.
Skipping down:

" For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though [it] were but for a season.
9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, [what] clearing of yourselves, yea, [what] indignation, yea, [what] fear, yea, [what] vehement desire, yea, [what] zeal, yea, [what] revenge! In all [things] ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
12 Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, [I did it] not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you. " ( 2 Corinthians 7:8-12 ).

Remember that letter he wrote to them before ( 1 Corinthians ), when he rebuked the man for having his father's wife, rebuked them for being drunk, rebuked them for fornication and for infighting?
In this one, he commends them for taking correction and for exhibiting godly sorrow...
The kind of godly sorrow that comes from a changed heart.

In verse 10 I see that godly sorrow works repentance to salvation not to be repented of...
In other words, godly sorrow is the fruit of salvation.
He also tells them that the sorrow of the world ( I take this to mean being sorry, not that we offended Him, but that we were caught sinning ) works death.

But I could be wrong on that last.