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Biblical vs Reformed Salvation

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Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
It says “whosoever believes” and everyone without exception does not believe.
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Exactly, that's the piece he is missing. Salvation is not for everyone. It is for everyone who believes. AND it says in the next verse that he who believes is not condemned but the one that does not believe has ALREADY been condemned.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Does the world in John 3.16 refer to the entire human race?
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I used to think so.
Over the years it's occurred to me that the word "world" is defined there as the "whosoever believeth".

I see too many contradictions otherwise.
Psalms 5:5, Psalms 11:5 and Romans 9:13 are but a few.
SavedByGrace said:
So almost every Greek lexicon that defines kosmos here as the whole human race, are wrong?
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The Greek can define it however it wants;
The question I would be asking is, "does the Scriptures support it?"

Just because a lexicon determines that "kosmos" means "world" ( and it does ), does not mean every instance of the word "world" means "every man, woman and child who ever lived".
The text itself should define that, and there are so many examples I could bring up for comparison.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
I used to think so.
Over the years it's occurred to me that the word "world" is defined there as the "whosoever believeth".

I see too many contradictions otherwise.

The Greek can define it however it wants;
The question I would be asking is, "does the Scriptures support it?"

Just because a lexicon determines that "kosmos" means "world" ( and it does ), does not mean every instance of the word "world" means "every man, woman and child who ever lived".
The text itself should define that, and there are so many examples I could bring up for comparison.
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That is precisely my point. It's an oversimplification of the issue.

Lexicons are wonderful tools, but they are not the end all be all.
 
Salty

Salty

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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
Including Esau (whom “I have hated”) and Judas (the “son of Perdition”)?

(Just looking for clarification on the question). ;)
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YES! It is clear from Luke's account of the Lord's Supper, that Judas did eat of the bread and drink the wine, that represents the body and blood of Jesus Christ. And Jesus also to him that He was to shed His blood for his sins!
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
NETBible: Ephesians 1:3-14

Ephesians 1:3-14 is One Sentence in Greek: Where to Start

In Christ: In One Sentence;
It’s well known that Ephesians 1:3-14 is one long sentence in Greek. The following is from the ESV but I’ve made some of the pronouns more explicit to highlight the way in which Paul sees the Christian life—from before the foundation of the world to eternity—as bound up with the idea of union with Christ.


Grace is a Gift | Ephesians 1:3-14

Punctuating the Bible - The Aquila Report

Ephesians 1 | Bible.org
Ephesians 1:3-4 Commentary | Precept Austin
Ray Stedman writes that "There is an unusual structure in this passage to which I'd like to call your attention. From Verse 3 through Verse 14 in the Greek text (not in the English) you have one complete, unbroken sentence filled with many adjectival phrases brought in to amplify and enrich it. If you want to get the effect of it, take a deep breath and try to read it through with one breath. You will see how much Paul has crammed into this great sentence. It's almost as though he is taking a walk through a treasure chamber, like those of the Pharaohs of Egypt, describing what he sees. He starts out with the most immediate and evident fact and tells us what that is. Then something else comes into view and he puts that in. And glory flashes upon glory here until he has this tremendously complicated sentence which includes vast and almost indescribable riches...You see, these are much more than mere doctrinal ambiguities, mere theological ideas. They are facts, foundational truths which undergird us in every moment of our life. And, unless you understand those facts, you can't utilize them, you can't benefit from them. In that way they are like natural laws. The laws of nature operate regardless of how we feel -- they are impersonal in that respect. I've been doing a bit of electrical work in an addition to my home, and I've discovered that electricity follows a pattern of its own and takes no notice of how I feel at the moment. That can be a shocking experience! It is not in the slightest degree impressed with my position as a pastor of Peninsula Bible Church. It doesn't hesitate to retaliate for any violation of its laws that I commit. It is up to me to discover how it works, and then to respect it, if I want to utilize it. The same thing is true of these great facts. They will do you not a particle of good if you don't discover what they are and believe them enough to operate on the basis of them. That is why we are having this study together. We couldn't possibly cover in one message all that is wrapped up in these great truths, and I don't want to attempt it. We want to take our time going through this passage so that we might grasp these fundamental facts. (Ephesians 1::3-14: Foundations)

Notice that in a single verse Paul uses the entire word family -- the adjective (eulogetos), the verb (eulogeo) and the noun (eulogia) and the sentence still makes supernatural sense not nonsense as the natural man foolishly surmises!

Blessed (2128) (eulogetos from eu = good + logos = word - English "eulogy" = a speech or writing that praises someone highly) is the adjective describing the One Who is worthy of praise and in the NT is rightly used only of God and Christ Jesus. Rarely eulogetos is actually used as a Name for God -- "the Blessed One" (Mark 14:61).

Eulogetos - 8x in 8v - Mk 14:61; Luke 1:68; Ro 1:25; 9:5; 2 Cor 1:3; 11:31; Eph 1:3; 1 Pet 1:3
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thanks for sharing, but I fully agree with Steven Baugh! so there we have it.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
then you are in error!
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I respect that you think that I'm in error, SBG.
I also concede that you have the right and privilege to understand it the way you do, and I have the same right and privilege.;)

But just to set your mind at ease, I'm not out in the churches around my area trying to get people to see things my way...
In fact, except for visiting the occasional Baptist church a total of 8 times in the past 14 years,
I've stayed out of them altogether.

For fellowship, I get together with another brother in the Lord who believes the same as I do every weekend,
and we encourage one another through our trials of faith and enjoy the Lord's goodness at a local buffet.
No one comes looking for us, and no one calls on the phone.
We're no threat, and we certainly don't wish to make ourselves into one.

Outside of my involvement on this forum, I rarely post my views on the other two that I'm a member of...
And I don't speak with professing Christians in my area at all;
I simply keep to myself and hope that the Lord comes soon.

We pray that He brings others into fellowship with us,
but even if that never happens, the last thing we want to do is to make ourselves a problem for people who don't agree with us.


Thank you for the privilege of answering your questions and comments in this thread, and for the opportunity to share my views of the Scriptures.
I wish you well, as always, and may the Lord bless you in many ways.:)
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
I respect that you think that I'm in error, SBG.
I also concede that you have the right and privilege to understand it the way you do, and I have the same right and privilege.;)

But just to set your mind at ease, I'm not out in the churches around my area trying to get people to see things my way...
In fact, except for visiting the occasional Baptist church a total of 8 times in the past 14 years,
I've stayed out of them altogether.

For fellowship, I get together with another brother in the Lord who believes the same as I do every weekend,
and we encourage one another through our trials of faith and enjoy the Lord's goodness at a local buffet.
No one comes looking for us, and no one calls on the phone.
We're no threat, and we certainly don't wish to make ourselves into one.

Outside of my involvement on this forum, I rarely post my views on the other two that I'm a member of...
And I don't speak with professing Christians in my area at all;
I simply keep to myself and hope that the Lord comes soon.

We pray that He brings others into fellowship with us,
but even if that never happens, the last thing we want to do is to make ourselves a problem for people who don't agree with us.


Thank you for the privilege of answering your questions and comments in this thread, and for the opportunity to share my views of the Scriptures.
I wish you well, as always, and may the Lord bless you in many ways.:)
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May the Lord continue to bless you and your friend and guide you into His precious Truth.
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
you clearly don't understand what this passage says!
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It says “whosoever believes” and everyone without exception does not believe ... see: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." [John 3:16 NASB]
  • God loved "the world"
  • "whoever believes" will not perish
That is what it SAYS.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
It says “whosoever believes” and everyone without exception does not believe ... see: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." [John 3:16 NASB]
  • God loved "the world"
  • "whoever believes" will not perish
That is what it SAYS.
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Exactly. It clearly says that because God loved the world (human race) he gave His son for the ones that believe so they will not perish.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
Exactly. It clearly says that because God loved the world (human race) he gave His son for the ones that believe so they will not perish.
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Your Greek is wrong. It says "may" not "shall". Look at Youngs literal translation and Weymouth. It is conditional which cannot read shall!
 
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