Featured John 3:16-18

Don't be fooled here. @SavedByGrace took the comments of both Calvin and Dabney out of context and twisted what they were actually saying.

 

So one translator got it right and everyone else is wrong because it fits your narrative?

 

You have already lost all credibility when quoting reformed theologians by taking their comments out of context to skew the perception of those who read your comments.

 

V.15 - whosoever = individual
V.15 - believeth = individual (singular)
V.16 - whosoever = individual
V.16 - believeth = individual (singular)
V.18 - he = individual
V.18 - he = individual
V.18 - he = individual
V.20 - every one = individual

Etc.

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The Lord likens his salvation to:
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

That "salvation" in the wilderness was a provision for all, not just some elect Jews.
Any man that looked toward it could have availed himself of that salvation.

So, clearly, every individual.

There is no way out, because if you make this every individual within the elect, you disprove the point by trying to prove it, for if it applies to every individual within the world of the elect, then the same logic would cover every individual within the world of mankind. You may counter that by appealing to other verses, but within John 3 itself, it is inescapable, whatever your angle, that every individual within the world, whatever that world may be, is targeted.

 

Yes and notice those individual words are tied to other words in the passage and not the word world.

Yes believeth in verse 15 is talking about individuals and it is tied to whosoever, the same is true in verse 16, it is tied to the whosoever. the same is in the following verses.

The salvation in the wilderness was a provision for those who believed only. Not everyone. Yes anyone that looked could have received salvation just like anyone who believes will have salvation. But that's not the true argument you are making. You are transporting that to mean that everyone can believe when they cannot.

Your points have been noted but they do not advance your argument in the slightest.

 

Well said, perhaps, but it actually said nothing to further your point.

 

Notice Robertson here is not talking about individuals, but all people groups. The whole human race.

 

It is every believing one who continues on in a state of believing found anywhere in the world.
A.t. robertson speaks to the scope or extent of the gospel.
Rom5 : 8 is speaking of the justified of rom5:1

 

Sorry but saying that the whosoever is not a part of the world leads us into a world of logic-denying non-sense where meaning breaks down.

But let's take the jump:

If world = world of the elect exclusively, and whosoever believeth is not tied to that world, then, logically, believers are not part of the world of the elect.

You can't have it both ways: making the world equal believers but then saying believers are not connected to the world.

 

Except that is not what I said. I said the whosoever is a subset of the world.

Your problem and the problem that @SavedByGrace has is that you keep trying to tell us what we are saying except the problem is that it is not what we are saying.

 

Except it's not our arguments. It is what you twist our arguments to be.

 

Classic. What I submit to you is that such rampant misunderstanding as is often decried of the Calvinists is largely self-induced, because the goal posts move constantly and the theology is contortionist.
So, I misunderstood. Please restate your point to the best of your ability, I want to understand it.

 

Watch "John 3:16 Dr James White - Does it say "Whoever?"" on YouTube


here you go

 

Watch "John 3:16 Dr James White - Does it say "Whoever?"" on YouTube

 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.