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Who Is the Giver of Life By KJV Scripture?

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Cannot be that the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same person!

agree, the only to understand the Greek of verse 17, first part, is that the second article is retrospective, with reference to The Spirit mentioned in verse 6. Again, too many people are hung up on the KJV for being 100% right!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
agree, the only to understand the Greek of verse 17, first part, is that the second article is retrospective, with reference to The Spirit mentioned in verse 6. Again, too many people are hung up on the KJV for being 100% right!
The Spirit of the Lord searches even the very mind of God, so not same person there either...
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
No. The entire chapter is still about Jesus Christ as whenever the Spirit is referenced, it is done as the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. ~ KJV

Vital principle.

The KJV knows when to capitalize in referring to the Holy Spirit as we read on in that chapter, but note how the scripture testify Who the Holy Spirit is Representative of.

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Why is it necessary? Because there are other spirits in the world & pneuma would require other words in relation to God to know what that spirit is of. So the scripture cannot use "Spirit" to represent Himself when He must always be the Spirit of Christ or the Spirit of the Lord as the divine Witness from God Who will not testify of Himself in seeking His own glory but of the Son in seeking His glory & by Him the glory of God the Father.. The Spirit does this thru us. He will not lead us to witness in any other way so that His witness combined with our witness is true, and that has to include worship when we worship the Lord anywhere by ourselves since our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit & Jesus Christ is with us always.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. ~ KJV

The irony is that they baptized in Jesus Christ's name in practice as many believers overlook that in Acts while they baptize literally by saying "in the name of the Father the Son & the Holy Ghost" when the name of the Triune God to call upon to be saved is Jesus Christ. As it is, Jesus said before His ascension that all power was given unto Him & that He is with us always as we are married to the Bridegroom as One with God.

You are the bride. We can get to know God the father by knowing the Son. That is Whom scripture & the holy Spirit in us is still pointing saved believers to go to in order to live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ. The Bridegroom relates to us through His words thru the Holy Spirit in us as we respond back to the Bridegroom, not back to the Holy Spirit.

sorry, but you don't understand much about "subjects" in a passage like 2 Cor 3. There is no way in this chapter, that Jesus Christ is the main thought!
 

Hark

Well-Known Member
agree, the only to understand the Greek of verse 17, first part, is that the second article is retrospective, with reference to The Spirit mentioned in verse 6. Again, too many people are hung up on the KJV for being 100% right!

Can you prove that you are not hung up on the KJV being wrong?

I think you are relying on education rather than the Lord Jesus Christ for understanding what is written.

Can you clarify why you think that Jesus Christ & the Spirit are One Person because that sounds more like Oneness Pentecostalism to me. You are listed as Baptist.
 

Hark

Well-Known Member
Cannot be that the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same person!

Can you clarify why you think that Jesus Christ & the Spirit are One Person because that sounds more like Oneness Pentecostalism to me.
 

Hark

Well-Known Member
sorry, but you don't understand much about "subjects" in a passage like 2 Cor 3. There is no way in this chapter, that Jesus Christ is the main thought!

I believe you are missing the forest for all the trees since Spirit of the Lord & Spirit of the living God is referring to the Lord Jesus Christ, but it is on God to help you see that truth as the Spirit of Truth is the same as the Spirit of Christ in representing the Son..
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
I believe you are missing the forest for all the trees since Spirit of the Lord & Spirit of the living God is referring to the Lord Jesus Christ, but it is on God to help you see that truth as the Spirit of Truth is the same as the Spirit of Christ in representing the Son..

you cannot see that you are wrong
 

Hark

Well-Known Member
I am using the Greek of about 15 different editions!

Can you provide scripture for that is how we, the believers, are to get to the truth in His words for each Bible version?

Here is scripture saying otherwise;

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. KJV

Since scripture do not go against scripture & again scripture testifies Who scripture is to testify about.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. KJV

The same for the Holy Spirt as to Who He is to testify about thru us.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. KJV

So the Holy Spirit in the authors of the New Testament will testify of the Son as the Old Testaments had done also. That is how you know to remove all doubt when it comes to testimonies in the New Testament that you think is there to glorify the Hoy Spirit by, when it is not but to glorify the Son & by Him, God the Father.
 

Hark

Well-Known Member
you cannot see that you are wrong

Then we agree to disagree since you refuse to address how scripture has testified to the Son as giving life & that the Holy Spirit seeks to testify of the Son to glorify the Son & that includes giving Him the title as the Giver of Life as scripture does.
 

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
much of what you write here is not Biblical theology. You seem to have a "subordination" of Persons in the Godhead!

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.


So the Holy Ghost's role is compared to that of a servant relative to the Father, as was Eliezer with Abraham and Isaac, the trio prefiguring the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Of course, the three are equal in essence and glory, and are one in essence, but there is a subordination of roles in the Godhead, hence, my Father is greater than I, etc.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
but there is a subordination of roles in the Godhead, hence, my Father is greater than I, etc.

this was said during the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, Who also said, "I and the Father are one", in Life-Giver, Power, Authority and Purpose, as the context says. See John 17:5, Hebrews 2:7-9
 

Hark

Well-Known Member
I read that the Spirit quickeneth. The Nicene Creed got it right.
Read it again, otherwise you are saying the Spirit is plural and not One Spirit.

John 6:.63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. ~ KJV

Jesus was denouncing the false notion that they had to literally eat His flesh & drink His blood to be saved when in actuality, they were not hearing His words on how to be saved which is by believing in Him thru out that chapter.

Jesus linked the quickening of the spirit to His words. So one can argue that it is a mental disposition or a vital principle, but He cannot be referring to the Person of the Holy Spirit. Therefore most modern Bibles have it wrong whereas KJV & a few modern Bibles has it right.

That also means the Nicene creed got it wrong.
 
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SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Read it again, otherwise you are saying the Spirit is plural and not One Spirit.

John 6:.63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. ~ KJV

Jesus was denouncing the false notion that they had to literally eat His flesh & drink His blood to be saved when in actuality, they were not hearing His words on how to be saved which is by believing in Him thru out that chapter.

Jesus linked the quickening of the spirit to His words. So one can argue that it is a mental disposition or a vital principle, but He cannot be referring to the Person of the Holy Spirit. Therefore most modern Bibles have it wrong whereas KJV & a few modern Bibles has it right.

That also means the Nicene creed got it wrong.

I suggest that you learn Greek grammar
 

Hark

Well-Known Member
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.


So the Holy Ghost's role is compared to that of a servant relative to the Father, as was Eliezer with Abraham and Isaac, the trio prefiguring the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.


I agree & glad that you acknowledge scripture proving this to be the truth.


Of course, the three are equal in essence and glory, and are one in essence, but there is a subordination of roles in the Godhead, hence, my Father is greater than I, etc.

Equal in essence as the Three are of the One God, but there is no scripture citing the glory of the Holy Ghost to be with the Father & the Son. I do see the judgment of God citing the Father's will in how the Father specifically wished to be honored by.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. ~ KJV

The Holy Spirit is not directly mentioned to be honored but the Holy Spirit has been "indirectly" mentioned as excluded in order to honor the Father because the latter part of verse 23 states that he that honor not the Son, honor not the Father that has sent Him. That means when a saved believer is honoring the Holy Spirit, that is not honoring the Son nor the Father.

Those led by the Spirit will do the Father's will since the Holy Spirit is leading believers to testify of the Son in seeking His glory & not of Himself in seeking His own glory.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. ~ KJV

John 16:14 He shall glorify me...... ~ KJV

Is God confined to His words on what a true witness is?

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. ~ KJV

Jesus said that so what applies to men, God will do.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. ~ KJV

The Holy Spirit is the Perfect Witness. He will not step outside of the role He has been sent to do which is to testify of the Son to glorify the Son. Now how can the Holy Spirit accomplish this other than through us?

It is man's assumption outside of scripture that the Holy Spirit being God also, is to be worshiped with the Father & the Son.

Since sinners in the world worship spirits and the spirits behind the idols, God will call them away from those spirits to a personal reconciled relationship with God the Father through His Son. That is the only way the churches will know that the sinner has repented of the practice of seeking spirits & their presence with signs & wonders when our bodies is the temple of the Holy Ghost & that Jesus Christ is in us. Jesus is the Bridegroom. We are the bride. Jesus is how we are married to God the Father by. We have His seal of adoption, the Holy Spirit, for why Heavenward, our worship is on honoring the Son to glorify Him and thereby honoring & glorifying God the Father.

The glory of God rests on His Son Whom the Holy Spirit seeks to lead us to testify of to glorify God by.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him. ~ KJV

It all boils down to heeding His words in John 5:22-23 as verse 22 cites how we will be judged & verse 23 cites the only way to honor the father is by honoring the Son as the judgment is committed unto the Son per verse 22.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. ~ KJV

This is why no one can defend the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. because scripture cannot support each line given in Nicene creed. There is a web site that lists scriptural references for each line, but nobody bothered to look them up because Matthew 3:16-17 does not teach the practice of the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, but is only referring to the 2 Witnesses from Heaven about Jesus as His Son at His water baptism.

Neither does Genesis 1:2 teaches about the Holy Spirit being the Giver of life & so I call every believer to prove all things with Him by His words everything the churches teaches us, assuming it to be scriptural when it is not, because God is coming soon to judge His House as to whether or not they have been abiding in His words rather than outside of His words.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. ~ KJV

May God cause the increase.
 

Hark

Well-Known Member
I suggest that you learn Greek grammar

I still do not see any scripture or even prophetic ones informing believers that they need to understand the Greek in order to understand His words.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. ~ KJV

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. ~ KJV
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

I agree & glad that you acknowledge scripture proving this to be the truth.




Equal in essence as the Three are of the One God, but there is no scripture citing the glory of the Holy Ghost to be with the Father & the Son. I do see the judgment of God citing the Father's will in how the Father specifically wished to be honored by.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. ~ KJV

The Holy Spirit is not directly mentioned to be honored but the Holy Spirit has been "indirectly" mentioned as excluded in order to honor the Father because the latter part of verse 23 states that he that honor not the Son, honor not the Father that has sent Him. That means when a saved believer is honoring the Holy Spirit, that is not honoring the Son nor the Father.

Those led by the Spirit will do the Father's will since the Holy Spirit is leading believers to testify of the Son in seeking His glory & not of Himself in seeking His own glory.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. ~ KJV

John 16:14 He shall glorify me...... ~ KJV

Is God confined to His words on what a true witness is?

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. ~ KJV

Jesus said that so what applies to men, God will do.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. ~ KJV

The Holy Spirit is the Perfect Witness. He will not step outside of the role He has been sent to do which is to testify of the Son to glorify the Son. Now how can the Holy Spirit accomplish this other than through us?

It is man's assumption outside of scripture that the Holy Spirit being God also, is to be worshiped with the Father & the Son.

Since sinners in the world worship spirits and the spirits behind the idols, God will call them away from those spirits to a personal reconciled relationship with God the Father through His Son. That is the only way the churches will know that the sinner has repented of the practice of seeking spirits & their presence with signs & wonders when our bodies is the temple of the Holy Ghost & that Jesus Christ is in us. Jesus is the Bridegroom. We are the bride. Jesus is how we are married to God the Father by. We have His seal of adoption, the Holy Spirit, for why Heavenward, our worship is on honoring the Son to glorify Him and thereby honoring & glorifying God the Father.

The glory of God rests on His Son Whom the Holy Spirit seeks to lead us to testify of to glorify God by.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him. ~ KJV

It all boils down to heeding His words in John 5:22-23 as verse 22 cites how we will be judged & verse 23 cites the only way to honor the father is by honoring the Son as the judgment is committed unto the Son per verse 22.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. ~ KJV

This is why no one can defend the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. because scripture cannot support each line given in Nicene creed. There is a web site that lists scriptural references for each line, but nobody bothered to look them up because Matthew 3:16-17 does not teach the practice of the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, but is only referring to the 2 Witnesses from Heaven about Jesus as His Son at His water baptism.

Neither does Genesis 1:2 teaches about the Holy Spirit being the Giver of life & so I call every believer to prove all things with Him by His words everything the churches teaches us, assuming it to be scriptural when it is not, because God is coming soon to judge His House as to whether or not they have been abiding in His words rather than outside of His words.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. ~ KJV

May God cause the increase.
The Holy Spirit is also fully God!
 
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