Featured Who Draws Men Unto the Son?

Not sure why you had asked me then.

God the Father drawing men unto the Son to reveal the Son to them so they can believe in Him is how the rebirth comes about.

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. KJV

God the Father opening her heart to hear the things spoken of Paul & "attend" unto them is how she was drawn to believe in His Son to be saved; hence receive the new birth as born again of the Spirit.

No one is born again of the Spirit before believing in the Son. When they believe in the Son, they are born again of the Spirit. Those who do not believe in the Son are not born of the Spirit until they do by the grace of God & His help to believe in Him.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. ~ KJV

 

Hold up there.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. KJV

I believe this being born of God is to defer from Judaism or any other religious means to become the sons of God by, now that Christ has come, died, resurrected, & ascended at the right hand of God the Father in Heaven so by simply believing in Him is how we are saved and our believing in Him is a work of God..

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. KJV

Confirms that our believing in Him is from God, not from our flesh nor will power. Our believing in Him is a work of God.

The parable of the seed & the sower is referring to unbelievers that were not able to receive the seed, even though hearing it, crows as in unbelief gobbled it up so the seed was not received.

The others that did receive the seed had received salvation but how they grow in the Lord will be judged as to how fruitful they will be as His disciples.

Hence the crows gobbled up the seed so it was not received when heard it not mixed with faith aka belief to receive that seed..

Clarity & reproof in regards to how you are applying that parable to mean. Reprobate means the disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven in regards to the race we are to run by faith in Jesus Christ for the high prize of our calling to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House as the crowns we may receive are actually His crowning achievements in us for why the elders were casting their crowns & our crowns at His feet in Heaven.

Jesus will go after that lost sheep per Matthew 18:10-14 because all lost sheep have been bought with a price & sealed as His Ephesians 4:30 for why we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit nor defile the Temple of God or else per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 Those unrepentant saints & former believers left behind, He will get them as they will be resurrected along with new believers at the end of the great tribulation. 2 Timothy 2:10-26 explains why we seek the good of saved believers in discipleship.

Discipleship aka running the race is not for salvation because we cannot run that race without Him in us & helping us lay aside every weight & sin. We run that race as saved, but for the high prize of our calling or else risk not only losing our rewards of crowns ( His crowning achievements in us ) but in becoming a castaway too as Paul warned even himself about.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. ~ KJV

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. KJV

Those left behind may lose their crowns & be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, but they are still saved regardless. It is liken to the prodigal son losing his first inheritance but find he is still son.

The works on that foundation gets burned up but the foundation remains. Their spirit is saved as that seal of adoption is not going anywhere from the spirits of the saints for when they are absent from the body during the great tribulation, they shall be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. KJV
.

 

I agree that the Father & the Son & the Holy Ghost are One God, but it is the Father's will that is being done & only the Son of God as the prophesied Son of Man died on that cross was raised, & ascended to God the Father.

The scripture designates the role of the Comforter to the Holy Spirit. John 14:26

The scripture designates the only Mediator to be the man, Jesus Christ, as being in between us & the Father; not the Holy Spirit, not the "Virgin" Mary & not any of the departed patron saints. 1 Timothy 2:5

The scripture designates the Father as being the only exception as the One drawing men unto the Son to give to the Son to be saved ( John 6:44 & John 6:38-40

How we apply certain truths in scripture as to apply rightly with His help with understanding how we apply these truths without opposing one another.

It is like this; When His disciples had spoken in ministry, were they really speaking or did the words from the Holy Spirit?

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. ~ KJV

And yet from this verse 20 when Jesus was on earth, was the Spirit really speaking or were the words from the Father?

So while people have a hard time not understanding how the Spirit is not speaking His own words but what He hears, but yet they can understand that it is not really the disciples that are speaking but the Holy Spirit in them from the Father, they need to understand that the same way His disciples were speaking is how the Holy Spirit is speaking; not their own words but from God the Father.

Now Christ is in Heaven, the words of the Father are now the Son's so the Spirit of Christ is speaking for the Son and not for Himself.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. ~ KJV

So how do we connect the drawing of men unto the Son has to be in aligning what all the scripture says as it is the Father that does the drawing of men unto the Son. The act of lifting the Son up on the cross in drawing men unto the Son does not do the drawing in & of itself when it is under the understanding that will not happen except / unless the Father does the drawing.

 

I do not see it as accomplished by our will when our believing in Him is not possible without the Father drawing us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us as well as enabling us to believe in Him.

No scripture really explains any of God's work before salvation other than the Father drawing them unto the Son ( John 6:44 ) & giving them to the Son to be saved ( John 6:38-40 ). The sending of the Holy Spirit is given when they are born again of the Spirit by believing in Jesus Christ. Jesus explained to Nicodemus on when one is born again of the Spirit which is after His ascension which was after His resurrection & how one is born again of the Spirit was when they believe in Him in that time.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. ~ KJV

They are not saved until they believe in Him which is a work of God also as pertaining to the Father drawing them unto the Son to reveal His Son to them to effect His work of believing in Him to be saved & thereby receive the promise of the Spirit " by " faith in Jesus Christ & not before.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.....26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. KJV

Still needed clarification though. Still not quite aligning with what you say as if they can receive the Spirit before believing in Him.

I think I understand what you are saying but not sure how you can defend against universalism or SavedByGrace's position as of last I know of.

Seeing how God the Father hides the truth from those that prefer their evil deeds rather than come to the light to be reproved of them & thus He knows whom are seeking Him from those that do not to reveal His Son to those He foreknew that would seek Him that want to be with God, then the Father drawing men unto the Son is to effect the new birth; by believing in Him is hardly accomplished by a will of a lost man. When the Father has led them to believe in Him, as the Father sends & Jesus baptizes with the Holy Ghost, then that is the moment of the rebirth & the promise of the Spirit is sent to dwell in us forever.

Thank you for sharing. I think I see the difference between us as it is a fine point seemingly, but although many credit the drawing to the Holy Spirit, I would rather credit the drawing to the Father as scripture plainly states to not confuse the truth.

 

How did the Holy Spirit speak thru O.T. prophets & thru His disciples when Jesus was on earth? By the Father.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. ~ KJV

How does the Holy Spirit speak now as the Spirit of Christ?

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. KJV

So when the O.T. prophets & His disciples had spoken, although they were verbally speaking, it was done by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but that is with the understanding where the words of the Holy Spirit is coming from as in the O.T. & the 4 gospels from the Father & in the N.T. from the Son as now the Father's words are the Son's.

So are we speaking our own words? No, but from the Holy Spirit in us from Another.

So the Holy Spirit calling men unto the Jesus is under the understanding that the Holy Spirit Himself is not using His own words either but His words was from the Father per your reference in the gospel of Luke 1:67-79

 

Hence there is no praying to the Holy Spirit.

But how you apply the lifting up of the cross is what you are doing to John 6:44.

The point of your reference is to be in context with the following verse of signifying what manner of death He would die. This is tying in with the act of Moses & the serpent in the wilderness.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ~ KJV

It is by God the Father giving His Son in Him being lifted up on the cross so He can draw them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved. It is how the verses connect which brings back to God the Father as doing the drawing as Jesus used the word "except" as inferring there is no other way men can be drawn unto the Son except the Father draws him. Yes, Him being lifted up in the cross & being crucified, was a way but it also included His resurrection for how we are to believe in the Son as well to be saved. So unless you want to single out John 3:14 as that is Jesus drawing men unto Himself, then how do you apply 16?

In relation to John 3:13-16, is how I apply John 12:32 to mean. Did He lifted Himself up on the cross? No. His persecutors did. Were people drawn to Him & got saved by lifting Him up on the cross at that time? No. So when was the drawing? When did His lifting Himself up on the cross to draw all men unto Himself as you seem to apply that to mean?

So if we take John 12:32 literally at the expense of other scripture, we are not really rightly dividing the word of truth with His help because it des not align with the other truths in His words.

Like this is written;

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; KJV

If we take this verse by itself, it would suggest that the Holy Spirit speaks His own words, but when with the understanding of how He speaks in that He speaks what He hears... then we read that verses with that truth behind how the Holy Spirit speaks.

Jesus is referring to Himself being lifted up on the cross signifying what manner of death He would die as to how the drawing would come about from the Father when aligning scripture with scripture as John 12:32-33 is aligned with John 3:13-16 but note John 3:13-16 also point out regarding His ascension before His crucifixion & how God gave His Son to believe in Him to be saved.

Him being crucified alone would not effect the drawing by the Father if His resurrection & ascension had never come about.

 

There is a cooperative among the Three Witnesses within the Godhead but it is the Father's will that is bring done as He is the One that gives sinners to the Son to be saved by the Son with the promise of the indwelling Holy Ghost at their salvation moment.

John 6:8 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ~ KJV

 

The Holy Spirit is not the Mediator. The Holy Spirit is the Comforter. John 14:26

Jesus Christ is the only Mediator between God the Father & men. 1 Timothy 2:5 Jesus Christ answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers per John 14:13-14 That is what is meant by the will of God in Romans 8:27 for knowing the mind of the Spirit to give His silent intercessions to the Father per Romans 8:26-27

Do not slain in the spirit & holy laughter movement & other confusion in these movement of the spirit happens by praying to the Holy Spirit to come & fall on them? If those movements of the spirit are not of God, then why would God allow the devil to respond while praying to the Holy Spirit? Why would God allow strong delusion be the response to that prayer?

John 10:1 is why because they are ignoring John 14:6 as the only way to approach God the Father in anything is by the only way of the Son.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. KJV

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6 is not just about salvation but about the only way to come to God the Father by & it is not by the Holy Spirit.

That is why all invitations points to the Son because of other spirits in the world & for the Father to call sinners away from ther spirits to a personal reconciled relationship with Him, it is going to be by the Son for how we will be married to God by in relating to Him.. That is the only way sinners know they are relating to God the Father by the way of the Son & how churches will know sinners are repenting from those spirits & not bringing them in to the worship place.

Ask Him about this at that throne of grace.

 

You may have t read post # 113 again with His help in understanding where I am coming from.