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Jesus, The Sin-Offering for the Whole World.

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Reformed1689

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“Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world” (1 John 2:1-2)

Who does John mean by the “our”? There can be no doubt from this Letter, that it is addressed to all Christians, both Jews and Gentiles. There is no indication anywhere, that John wrote this Letter only to Jewish believers, as some argue. There are many verses that are clear, that every true believer is being addressed in 1 John.

Here we have “our”, the entire Christian community, contrasted with “ολου του κοσμου”, the whole world. True believers, with non believers. The saved, with the unsaved. The two classes in this world. Either a person is with Jesus Christ, and truly saved, or they are against Jesus Christ, and they are truly lost. There is no way that this can be limited in any way, to mean “a few”, or even “the many”, in the world. If, as we have seen, that the “our” means born-again believers, then the “ἀλλά”, “but”, as used in “contrast”; referring to “the whole world”, is that which is outside of these Christians, and refers to the lost world of sinners. This is further seen in the use of the same words, in the fifth chapter of this Letter. In verse 19 we read, “We know that we are of God, and the whole world (ο κοσμος ολος) lies in the evil one”. Here we have the contrast again, “we are of God”, which can only refer to the truly born again believer. In verse 18 these are referred to as, “born of God”, impossible to refer to any unsaved person. Then we have the same phrase used in 2:2, “the whole world”, which can only mean, as this passage shows, unsaved, as they are said to “lie in the evil one”, that is, in his power. If, as some would argue for, the “our” in 2:2, as referring to Jewish believers, and “the whole world”, to the Gentile believers. Then, are we to suppose, that the “our” in 2:2, being the same as the “we” in 5:19, as Jewish Christian, who are “of God”; that the Gentile Christains, who are “the whole world”, are “in the power of the devil”? There is no reason why “the whole world” should be any different in both these places in this Letter of John, other than for “theology”!

What does John mean by “ιλασμος” in 2:2? Some Bible versions chose the word “propitiation”, which means, “appeasement, conciliation”, also “A propitiatory gift, offering, or sacrifice” (Oxford).

In Ezekiel 44:27, the Hebrew has, “he shall offer his sin-offering (חטּאה), declares the Lord GOD”. And the LXX, “they shall bring a propitiation (ιλασμον), saith the Lord God. In the NT, the Greek “ιλασμος”, late substantive from “ιλασκομα”, is also used for “merciful”, where it is used in Luke 18:13, “God be merciful to me a sinner”. Here neither the meanings “propitiate”, or “sin-offering”, would do. In Romans 3:25, Paul writes, “whom God set forth ιλαστηριον ”. “set forth” (προτίθεμαι), here has the meaning, “offered, provided”. “ἱλαστήριος”, meaning “the Mercy Seat”, from where the “sin offering” comes.

“it answers in Septuagint to Hebrew kaapar, to effect an atonement or reconciliation with God; in Eze 44:27, to the sin-offering” (Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Commentary)

Jesus Christ is the “sin-offering”, and the One Who “reconciles” the sinner by being “Merciful”, to God. This “sin-offering” is for the entire human race, every single person, as it very clear from 1 John 2:2, with 5:19. But, this does not mean, that every person is “saved”, which would be “universal salvation”, something that is no where taught in the Bible. Romans 3:26 tells us, “To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus” (KJV). The Sacrifice of Jesus’ Death is indeed universal, but the “effects” of this “Sacrifice”, is only when the sinner is “justified” with God, when they “believe in Jesus”. Paul makes this very clear in Ephesians 1:13, “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit”.

To be faithful to the truth revealed in Scripture, the whole world must be comprehended as a generic expression that refers to humanity throughout the earth, but not necessarily to every individual. World simply identifies the earthly realm of mankind to which God directed His reconciling love and provided propitiation (cf. John 1:29; 3:16; 6:51; 1 Tim. 2:5–6; Titus 2:11; Heb. 2:9). The language of Scripture is strong and clear, stating that Christ’s death actually satisfies fully and eternally the demands of God’s wrath for those who believe (John 10:11, 15; 17:9, 20; Acts 20:28; Rom. 8:32, 37; Eph. 5:25). Though the Savior’s death intrinsically had infinite value, it was designed to actually (not potentially) secure the satisfaction for divine justice only on behalf of those who would believe.

John MacArthur, 1, 2, 3 John, MacArthur New Testament Commentary (Chicago, IL: Moody Publishers, 2007), 49.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
To be faithful to the truth revealed in Scripture, the whole world must be comprehended as a generic expression that refers to humanity throughout the earth, but not necessarily to every individual. World simply identifies the earthly realm of mankind to which God directed His reconciling love and provided propitiation (cf. John 1:29; 3:16; 6:51; 1 Tim. 2:5–6; Titus 2:11; Heb. 2:9). The language of Scripture is strong and clear, stating that Christ’s death actually satisfies fully and eternally the demands of God’s wrath for those who believe (John 10:11, 15; 17:9, 20; Acts 20:28; Rom. 8:32, 37; Eph. 5:25). Though the Savior’s death intrinsically had infinite value, it was designed to actually (not potentially) secure the satisfaction for divine justice only on behalf of those who would believe.

John MacArthur, 1, 2, 3 John, MacArthur New Testament Commentary (Chicago, IL: Moody Publishers, 2007), 49.

how does this even deal with the OP? JM is a Calvinist and can only respond like one. His words quoted are his "theology", and then taking the Scriptures to force them to agree with this!
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
To be faithful to the truth revealed in Scripture, the whole world must be comprehended as a generic expression that refers to humanity throughout the earth, but not necessarily to every individual. World simply identifies the earthly realm of mankind to which God directed His reconciling love and provided propitiation (cf. John 1:29; 3:16; 6:51; 1 Tim. 2:5–6; Titus 2:11; Heb. 2:9). The language of Scripture is strong and clear, stating that Christ’s death actually satisfies fully and eternally the demands of God’s wrath for those who believe (John 10:11, 15; 17:9, 20; Acts 20:28; Rom. 8:32, 37; Eph. 5:25). Though the Savior’s death intrinsically had infinite value, it was designed to actually (not potentially) secure the satisfaction for divine justice only on behalf of those who would believe.

John MacArthur, 1, 2, 3 John, MacArthur New Testament Commentary (Chicago, IL: Moody Publishers, 2007), 49.

here is his take on 1 John 2:2, "
for the whole world. This is a generic term, referring not to every single individual, but to mankind in general. Christ actually paid the penalty only for those who would repent and believe
MacArthur, J. J. (1997, c1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed.) (1 Jn 2:2). Nashville: Word Pub."

How does this agree with John 5:19, where the very same phrase, "the whole world" is used, which is in the power of the devil? Does this mean that not "every single individual", who is unsaved is included here? What about those who are not included here? Again, JM like you, are forcing the Bible to agree with your personal theology! At least the Reformed commentary by JFB is more honest!

also for the sins of the whole world--Christ's "advocacy" is limited to believers ( 1Jo 2:1 1Jo 1:7 ): His propitiation extends as widely as sin extends: see on JF & B for 2Pe 2:1, "denying the Lord that bought them." "The whole world" cannot be restricted to the believing portion of the world (compare 1Jo 4:14; and "the whole world," 1Jo 5:19 ). "Thou, too, art part of the world, so that thine heart cannot deceive itself and think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me" [LUTHER].
 

Van

Well-Known Member
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1 John 2:2 NASB
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

He Himself refers to our Lord Jesus.
Is the propitiation refers to Jesus being the means of salvation.
For our sins refers to John's intended audience of born anew believers.
Jesus is also the means of salvation for the whole world, all humankind. Everyone God places into Christ spiritually is saved, and everyone not placed into Christ remains unsaved.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
1 John 2:2 NASB
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

He Himself refers to our Lord Jesus.
Is the propitiation refers to Jesus being the means of salvation.
For our sins refers to John's intended audience of born anew believers.
Jesus is also the means of salvation for the whole world, all humankind. Everyone God places into Christ spiritually is saved, and everyone not placed into Christ remains unsaved.

you said this earlier?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
you said this earlier?
This statement is the topic.
1 John 2:2 NASB
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

He Himself refers to our Lord Jesus.
Is the propitiation refers to Jesus being the means of salvation.
For our sins refers to John's intended audience of born anew believers.
Jesus is also the means of salvation for the whole world, all humankind. Everyone God places into Christ spiritually is saved, and everyone not placed into Christ remains unsaved.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Once again the Calvinist changes the subject and personally attacks the messengers of truth. This is all they have, folks, spew false charges as they run from scriptural doctrine.
You can't even address me. Only an idiot reading our comments would agree with you. When you have failed you always speak to a phantom John Calvin who lives only in your brain. Address me personally or know that no one takes you seriously.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
how does this even deal with the OP? JM is a Calvinist and can only respond like one. His words quoted are his "theology", and then taking the Scriptures to force them to agree with this!
JM is not a Calvinist. For one, he is a dispensationalist, which Calvin was not. JM holds to the Sovereignty of God as do many here who have addressed your error.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
this shows that your argument is moot! there is not ONE verse in this entire Letter that agrees with this!

it is in this epistle, ( 1 John 5:19 ) ;

where the whole world lying in wickedness is manifestly distinguished from the saints, who are of God, and belong not to the world;

and therefore cannot be understood of all the individuals in the world;

and the like distinction is in this text itself, for "the sins of the whole world" are opposed to "our sins", the sins of the apostle and others to whom he joins himself;
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
it is in this epistle, ( 1 John 5:19 ) ;

where the whole world lying in wickedness is manifestly distinguished from the saints, who are of God, and belong not to the world;

and therefore cannot be understood of all the individuals in the world;

and the like distinction is in this text itself, for "the sins of the whole world" are opposed to "our sins", the sins of the apostle and others to whom he joins himself;

We are of God, refers to saved Christians. The whole world is the unsaved
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You can't even address me. Only an idiot reading our comments would agree with you. When you have failed you always speak to a phantom John Calvin who lives only in your brain. Address me personally or know that no one takes you seriously.
On and on the Calvinist runs from scripture and hurls false charges, engaging in name calling.

1 John 2:2 NASB
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

He Himself refers to our Lord Jesus.
Is the propitiation refers to Jesus being the means of salvation.
For our sins refers to John's intended audience of born anew believers.
Jesus is also the means of salvation for the whole world, all humankind. Everyone God places into Christ spiritually is saved, and everyone not placed into Christ remains unsaved.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Broken Record. skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip
 

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Broken Record. skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip skip, skip, skip, skip, skip

Listen Austin I've been here a long time, he does that a lot... Brother Glen:)
 
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Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The ESV, NLT and NIV all corrupt the verse, changing the noun "salvation" into the verb "saved" to hide the conditional election message of the original text. Chosen through (instrumentality) setting individuals apart by reason of faith in the truth.

Yes, individuals are placed into Christ "on believing" as determined by God alone. If He credits the person's faith, then He places they into Christ. If not, they remain unelected and unsaved.

Yes Reformed says Ephesians 1:4 indicates individuals were chosen for salvation before creation, but that interpretation is precluded by 1 Peter 2:9-10. James 2:5 say individuals are chosen who are rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God. So scripture is clear, the when we are chosen is during our lifetime, after we have lived without mercy.
Repeating such falsehoods does not change this error into truth. bail out on this sinking ship.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Repeating such falsehoods does not change this error into truth. bail out on this sinking ship.
Note this Calvinist claims the Greek noun (translated as salvation) is really a verb. Apparently truth does not matter to Calvinism.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
and what difference do you see in this change?
Yet another change the subject and never acknowledge the non-stop falsehoods posted by the advocates of Calvinism.
I have posted the apparent reason for changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (saved) at least a half dozen times.
It changes the structure of the sentence so rather than being chosen through faith in the truth, it can be claimed we were saved through faith in the truth, thus obscuring the conditional election being presented by the inspired text.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yet another change the subject and never acknowledge the non-stop falsehoods posted by the advocates of Calvinism.
I have posted the apparent reason for changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (saved) at least a half dozen times.
It changes the structure of the sentence so rather than being chosen through faith in the truth, it can be claimed we were saved through faith in the truth, thus obscuring the conditional election being presented by the inspired text.

Van, do you really know Greek grammar? :rolleyes:
 
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