SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I am not altogether clear on this subject, as there are clearly verses that say that we are from the womb, at least “sinful”, that is, our human natures are corrupt. And, then there are other verses, especially that in Romans 9:11, that says that babies in the womb are not “sinners”?
Deuteronomy 1:39
And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.
Isaiah 7:15-16
He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted.
Jonah 4:11
And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?”
Romans 9:11
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad
These verses seem to show that humans are not born “sinners”, which I understand, of someone who actually “commits a sinful act”. Though, they do have their “natures” that are indeed sinful.
When King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, she gave birth to a son. God, in His Righteous Judgment, took this child from David. See what David says about the death of this child.
“And he said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who knows, the Lord may be gracious to me, and the child may live.’But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I am going to him, but he will not return to me.”” (2 Samuel 12:22-23)
It is very clear from this passage, that David believed that this son of his, was in heaven after he had died. Which is why he rejoiced at the fact that he would be joining him, after his own death. If this child was a “lost sinner”, then surely he could not be in heaven, as there are no sinners in heaven.
As I have said, I am not 100% sure about this, and interested to see what other Scriptures can be produced on this. David's prayer in Psalm 51, does not mean that the words "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" (verse 5), refer to every human being.
Deuteronomy 1:39
And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.
Isaiah 7:15-16
He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted.
Jonah 4:11
And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?”
Romans 9:11
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad
These verses seem to show that humans are not born “sinners”, which I understand, of someone who actually “commits a sinful act”. Though, they do have their “natures” that are indeed sinful.
When King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, she gave birth to a son. God, in His Righteous Judgment, took this child from David. See what David says about the death of this child.
“And he said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who knows, the Lord may be gracious to me, and the child may live.’But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I am going to him, but he will not return to me.”” (2 Samuel 12:22-23)
It is very clear from this passage, that David believed that this son of his, was in heaven after he had died. Which is why he rejoiced at the fact that he would be joining him, after his own death. If this child was a “lost sinner”, then surely he could not be in heaven, as there are no sinners in heaven.
As I have said, I am not 100% sure about this, and interested to see what other Scriptures can be produced on this. David's prayer in Psalm 51, does not mean that the words "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" (verse 5), refer to every human being.
