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Featured Cruel and unjust God?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Feb 13, 2021.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    All humans are unworthy of God's mercy, regardless of repentance.
    You make repentance, not mending ways and not accepting faith into 3 laws that a person must fulfill before God can save.

    Yet, God says:

    "even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved

    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast
    ."
    ~ Ephesians 2:5,8-9

    Salvation is 100% dependent upon God. Any percentage less than this becomes salvation by obedience to the law. Grace is nullified. God receives no honor while all the boasting falls to the man who follows the law.
     
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  2. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Well, I've been told by better that I'm not clever, but I wasn't trying to be. I was trying to be poetic, and you attested that I succeeded there. :Thumbsup

    We can just disagree on the idiom. I think, however, that the literature will bear me out.
     
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    six hour warning -
    This thread will be closed no sooner than 330 am EST (Tue) / 1230 am (Tue) PST
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    If you mean He would have received sin from Mary if He weren't Divine, I completely agree, but if you're trying to say that sin is passed only through the male, you are gravely mistaken.

    Sin isn't passed through the flesh. It is not a corporeal thing. When we say sin is passed, we're not talking about something like traits. We're really talking about something that neither parent can give, and that is life.

    Again, notice I said corrupted--not polluted. Whatever it was that we had when we were created, (and we were all created in Adam on the Sixth Day), whatever it was at which God could look and see that we were very good was lost.

    But Christ does not get His life from the line of Adam. In other words, He does not get His life from Mary. He is. And He is incorruptible. Christ's sinlessness is because of Him. Not because His body didn't come to us 'in the family way.'

    The Virgin Birth is a sign. But much like that the furniture and vessels of the Tabernacle were covered when carried from camp to camp, it is a sign only the Priesthood can see; the Royal Priesthood. It is only perceived by the eyes of faith.
     
  5. Strannik

    Strannik Member

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    ¹ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; ² Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: ³ Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. ⁴ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, ⁵ Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) ⁶ And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: ⁷ That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. ⁸ For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: ⁹ Not of works, lest any man should boast. ¹⁰ For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    ¹¹ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; ¹² That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: ¹³ But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. ¹⁴ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; ¹⁵ Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; ¹⁶ And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: ¹⁷ And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. ¹⁸ For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. ¹⁹ Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; ²⁰ And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; ²¹ In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: ²² In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
    Ephesians 2
    © Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
    ===============================================================
    Friend, you're missing a lot of facts.
    1) By grace we are saved, which means that we ourselves have done nothing to be saved. We are Gentiles, not Jews. It was the Jews who could still keep the Law of Moses in order to be saved by the Law.
    It is said: He who fulfills the Law will live by Him"

    2) The text you cited clearly states that Christians are saved not by works according to the flesh, not by good deeds, but by faith. A living faith in the Truth.
    And this is already you must agree, the factor that depends on us-people, and not only on the Lord God.
    To believe in the truth or to reject It is our own business.

    3) Paul says that as Gentiles, we had no hope of salvation,but now, thanks to faith in Christ, we have found hope.
    --------
    Here you need to think about whether those who were simply created saved need hope.

    4) Paul also says that in Christ God reconciled the irreconcilable and created One Single Temple of the Church of the Body of the Lord.
    ---------------"
    Now think about it. Was it necessary for God to reconcile the irreconcilable, if He had already prepared the saved for Himself from the very Beginning?

    5) Paul speaks of the calling to preach to those near and far, and to all men everywhere.
    -----------
    Think about it, and would it be necessary to preach to everyone everywhere, if God prepared certain people in advance for salvation?
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Would it be necessary? With God is it necessary?
    God has chosen to draw all his elect through the preaching of reconciliation by his ambassadors. God told us to go and make disciples, baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...not out of necessity, but because it is God's will.
    Ephesians 2 makes it clear that we are made alive by God and saved by grace. Our redemption is 100% by Gods work and adoption. You said it was 100% by man's work. (Perhaps your translater made an err.)
     
  7. Strannik

    Strannik Member

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    Well, in this situation, in general, a lot depends on the person. 100% of his salvation depends on him. If he does not repent and does not correct his ways. If he does not accept faith in Jesus Christ, then the Lord God will not have mercy on him, because such a person is simply unworthy of God's Mercy. The sinner simply rejected the mercy of God himself.
    So I see that the Calvinists are wrong on this point.

    Yes, and why would Jesus even order the Gospel to be preached to all people, if God originally created one handful, and He doesn't even need to preach it to them. He has already condemned them to salvation without repentance, since repentance in this situation looks like a farce.
    ==============================================

    In my words about 100%, I want to say that the paradox of Christian salvation is that no one party can participate in this matter for 50 or even 90 %.

    We cannot accept Christ by faith without repenting of our sins, or vice versa. If you repent of your sins, you will not believe in Christ.
    That's why I say that both sides are 100% involved in the salvation of a Christian. This is called synergy or cooperation, the union in the unity of the energies of the two sides.

    Without God's Sacrifice and Mercy, we cannot be saved, and without our repentance and our faith in Him and in His Sacrifice, without turning to Him, He cannot save us.

    ¹² Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. ¹³ Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 1 Peter 1:12-13
    © Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
     
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    This tread is closed

    Feel free to open a new one
     
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