Christians in Politics pt 2

[JonC]

Yes, I know what you said. You said it is wrong for a Christian to be in politics unless it is church politics. The only one 'wrong' here is you. As has been shown.

You attempted, but not successfully, to equate politics with porn or some other moral wrong. No amount of smoke will cover it up.

Point being, Christians should be involved in politics.

Quantrill

No, you have not shown anything. You offered an unsubstantiated opinion to dispute my interpretation of Scripture that we are not to be involved with these worldly powers.

 

[JonC]

Please define Conservative.

I'll borrow from Mr. Webster - "a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs "

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'll borrow from Mr. Webster - "a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs "

Then neither democrats or republicans represent that definition. So where then do you find that elusive stance. Perhaps the modern Wig party!

 

[JonC]

Then neither democrats or republicans represent that definition. So where then do you find that elusive stance. Perhaps the modern Wig party!

The GOP and the Conservative party both represent that definition. They may not be good at it, but that is a part of their platform (until recently....with COVID Republicans became Democrats fiscally, but that was just to get votes).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The GOP and the Conservative party both represent that definition. They may not be good at it, but that is a part of their platform (until recently....with COVID Republicans became Democrats fiscally, but that was just to get votes).

I live in a Republican county... every year my taxes go up, no matter who the government is. And I’ve called this place my home, off and on, for 64 years

Now if the money was used to make the community better IE pave roads, better infrastructure, etc then I would be fine with it but that isn’t the case. In fact, it’s worse than I’ve ever seen it. And we are just getting off 8 years of a GOP government. So maybe they talk the talk but they sure as hell don’t walk the walk.

 

[JonC]

I live in a Republican county... every year my taxes go up, no matter who the government is. And I’ve called this place my home, off and on, for 64 years

Now if the money was used to make the community better IE pave roads, better infrastructure, etc then I would be fine with it but that isn’t the case. In fact, it’s worse than I’ve ever seen it. And we are just getting off 8 years of a GOP government. So maybe they talk the talk but they sure as hell don’t walk the walk.

Yes. That is politics. Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes. That is politics. Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

At least in that situation you get a New Yok cannoli (crispy shell with regatta filling, powered sugar & chocolate chips sprinkled in). God, if I move outa dis area, I will neva get that again, no moore

 

[Quantrill]

No, you have not shown anything. You offered an unsubstantiated opinion to dispute my interpretation of Scripture that we are not to be involved with these worldly powers.

I have shown how ridiculous your position is.

Your interpretation of Scripture? What Scripture? Concerning this thread, all three pages, you have not cited one Scripture.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Yea, your point. Others believe in the separation of Church and State.

How is that against a Christian serving in politics?

Quantrill

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How is that against a Christian serving in politics?

Quantrill

I personally haven’t found one yet... if you have, let me know.

 

[JonC]

I have shown how ridiculous your position is.

Your interpretation of Scripture? What Scripture? Concerning this thread, all three pages, you have not cited one Scripture.

Quantrill

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

... my uncle was a politician and he used his position to control situations and manipulate. He was able to get better jobs for himself and his kids, influence school boards, yada yada. When I approached him about going into politics because they wanted to run me for office he forbade me from doing it.

 

[JonC]

... my uncle was a politician and he used his position to control situations and manipulate. He was able to get better jobs for himself and his kids, influence school boards, yada yada. When I approached him about going into politics because they wanted to run me for office he forbade me from doing it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

View attachment 4725

Exactly

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

The earliest church as well (perhaps by necessity).

I do not think the Church can make the decision for an individual. A church can decide who will be in good standing with the congregation, but not with Christ.

It seems we are not yet on the same page here, which is leading to completely different understandings.

First, no, those quotes from extrabiblical sources are not from the earliest church. The earliest church is what we read of in the NT, aka the apostolic church.

Second, the position that goes too far is the refusal of baptism to a new believer, for which there is zero biblical support in this context.

Ethiopian Eunuch—baptized.
Philippian jailer—baptized, along with his household.
Centurion Cornelius—baptized, along with his household.

The last was even specially chosen by God as a non-Jewish convert. The first was also specially selected by the Holy Spirit. Zero indication that any should resign their government posts.

Refusal of baptism in this context is going too far, way too far. It has zero biblical support, and in fact goes against the known practice of the apostolic church.

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you believe your view is correct?

For me, and for others who see this issue as I do!

 

[Yeshua1]

That is up to the individual, not me. We cannot argue from silence.

And why WW2. You realize we did not enter WW2 because of the Nazis...correct?

True, but we did confront the major evil of the time, Nazism, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

That is going far too far. As a rule, it is unbiblical.

“Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.”—Proverbs 14:34

God spoke to nations through the prophets of old. God even chose men and women from among his own people for special government service in some foreign nations, not just Israel and Judah. There is no biblical indication that God has ceased his interest in earthly kingdoms, or that his people should no longer have even important functions within those governments.

The closest we come to finding any such indication involves those who hold special church office, for example, Paul’s note to the evangelist Timothy.

Furthermore, all indications are that converts would retain their government posts.

Tax collector—Zaccheus (Luke 19:1-10).

Centurion—Cornelius (Acts 10).

Proconsul—Sergius Paulus (Acts 13:6-12).

Royal treasurer—Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26ff).

Prison overseer—Philippian jailer (Acts 16:16ff).

Tax collectors and soldiers—pentitent inquirers of John the Baptist (Luke 3:7-14).​

Note that the latter is even in the context of producing good fruit in keeping with repentance.

There is no biblical support for forbidding Christian involvement in government service to whatever degree is available. That later Christians fell into such a practice does not legitimize it. Infant baptism has more support.

This is not to say that one cannot imagine exceptions, for example, where the state requires a believer to swear allegiance to it above God.

“Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.”—Proverbs 14:34

God used soldiers and government and police to keep the peace and make sure judgement is performed out, did he suddenly change His thinking on these issues now?

 

[Yeshua1]

No, you have not shown anything. You offered an unsubstantiated opinion to dispute my interpretation of Scripture that we are not to be involved with these worldly powers.

We are still waiting to see scriptures from you though that shows to us a Christian forbidden to run for office, to be a cop/soldier, or to not be able to be Christian in the arts!

 

[JonC]

It seems we are not yet on the same page here, which is leading to completely different understandings.

First, no, those quotes from extrabiblical sources are not from the earliest church. The earliest church is what we read of in the NT, aka the apostolic church.

Second, the position that goes too far is the refusal of baptism to a new believer, for which there is zero biblical support in this context.

Ethiopian Eunuch—baptized.
Philippian jailer—baptized, along with his household.
Centurion Cornelius—baptized, along with his household.

The last was even specially chosen by God as a non-Jewish convert. The first was also specially selected by the Holy Spirit. Zero indication that any should resign their government posts.

Refusal of baptism in this context is going too far, way too far. It has zero biblical support, and in fact goes against the known practice of the apostolic church.

The issue is an argument from silence. We do not know.

What we can do is read passages about becoming entangled, about the nature of the world, about the purpose of redemption, and about the nature of the kingdom of God.

Then we decide for ourselves where we stand.