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The Invitation To Heaven

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Mar 13, 2021.

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  1. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Of course you know where I stand on this, SBG.

    I maintain that none of what you have stated has nullified Romans 8:28-30, Romans 9, Romans 11:1-8, Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:1-10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Revelation 17:8, Matthew 13:10-11 and many more.
    God's purposes according to election ( His choice ) will stand, or it is not all of grace.

    Man trying to come up another way than strictly by His grace and mercy, will only be met with "I never knew you" SBG.
    It's that simple.:(
    That is why I urge all of my brothers and sisters to study His words carefully;
    Sometimes things pop out on the pages after many times through it, and it is then that we have "aha" moments that humble us in the dust where we belong and exalt the Lord to His highest, where He belongs.

    Salvation is by grace and God's efforts, not grace plus our efforts.
    Gods does not wait on anyone's decision in order to save them...
    He does a whole host of things without our express permission.

    In addition, "Prevenient Grace" is not taught anywhere that I can find in His word.
    But "electing grace" ( something that traditional "Calvinists" call "Irresistible Grace" ), is.
    See Acts of the Apostles 16:14 for an example of this, as well as Paul's journey to Damascus.


    Good evening to you, sir.
     
    #21 Dave G, Mar 14, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    We show you it each time.
    You fail to address the response each time.
    If the time comes when you really want meaningful discussion it will happen.
     
    #22 Iconoclast, Mar 14, 2021
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The only good thing in the OP.is the bible quotes.

    When you offer on the verses what you offer is laughable.

    The whole human race is not mentioned.
    Your agenda is clear.
    No one can take your ideas seriously.

    The free offer is just that.
    It does not speak to ability or lack of ability.
    Your ideas are like if someone flips over a garbage can and says...go ahead....sort through this rubbish!
    They do. Find it is indeed rubbish, the. Flip over another garbage can and say do it again.
     
    #23 Iconoclast, Mar 14, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
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  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    again, you fail to respond to the 2 passages in the OP, nor say what they do refer to, if not what I have said? Don't keep on going to other places in the Bible, to suppose that you can somehow get rid of what these passages very clearly DO teach. Jesus Christ is the Speaker, and He knows Best of what He is saying
     
    #24 SavedByGrace, Mar 15, 2021
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    says your "reformed" theology" Jesus Christ as the Speaker 100% disagrees with you. Thats all that really matters. I note that yet again you FAIL to disprove what I have said, because you cannot!
     
    #25 SavedByGrace, Mar 15, 2021
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    because you guys just rant on about your warped theological ideas, and ignore time and agian what the Bible says
     
    #26 SavedByGrace, Mar 15, 2021
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  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    There is no offer of the gospel. This would make people their own savior by complying. It always says to Preach (announce) the gospel. Never to offer it. It is true God offered repentance to OT Israel under Law, but the law cannot save. This passage is not about salvation, but temporal deliverance from the curse of the law. Which happened in 70 AD in the siege of Jerusalem. You are trying to turn the gospel into law = a false gospel.
     
    #27 1689Dave, Mar 15, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    WHAT does Jesus mean by INVITE? An "Invitaion" by defination means that it can be either accepted or rejected. This IS what the Bible says, regardless of what your theology might want it to say
     
    #28 SavedByGrace, Mar 15, 2021
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Jesus says to preach (announce) the gospel. You turn the gospel into a law that cannot save. And grace into works when you read "offer" into it. It's a false gospel that cannot save. On the other hand, announcing the gospel informs those who believe of their salvation. If you must choose to believe, you don't believe.
     
    #29 1689Dave, Mar 15, 2021
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  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    so WHY does the Bible command that we CHOOSE? Like it is very clear from Joshua 24:15, "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" It is clear that the CHOICE is between the True God of the Bible, and the "gods" of this world, which is the devil. Why would Jesus tell the Jews in John chapter 5, who wanted to murder Him, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life." (39-40). Note, that these Jews REFUSE (a choice) to come to Jesus for eternal life. It is your theology that forbids you to accept what is clear in the Bible.
     
    #30 SavedByGrace, Mar 15, 2021
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    They chose under the law to avoid death. But it could not save. We are not under the law and the announcement of salvation for believers informs us of our salvation. If we must choose to believe, we turn the gospel back into law and grace into works.
     
    #31 1689Dave, Mar 15, 2021
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  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 22:17 is very clear, "And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely." This is an INVITATION for salvation.
     
    #32 SavedByGrace, Mar 15, 2021
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Only a believer (a saved person) would accept this offer. Unbelievers would reject it.
     
    #33 1689Dave, Mar 15, 2021
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  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    so, a person has to be "saved" first, and then they accept the offer to get "saved"? :rolleyes:
     
    #34 SavedByGrace, Mar 15, 2021
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

    “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

    “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)
     
    #35 1689Dave, Mar 15, 2021
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  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    according to your theology, the preaching of the Gospel Message to the entire human race, is no more than a sham! The "call" to salvation is universal, which is part of the Gospel, and then God says, sorry, not everyone can be saved, as I did not wish that everyone should be saved! The universal preaching of the Gospel becomes very insincere.
     
    #36 SavedByGrace, Mar 15, 2021
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The only thing being ignored is your posts that lack substance.Until you acquire spiritual.eyesight no meaningful interaction can happen.
     
    #37 Iconoclast, Mar 15, 2021
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    That's because you present it as a false "offer" of the gospel based on free will. I don't present it as anything more than an announcement of salvation for any who believe.
     
    #38 1689Dave, Mar 15, 2021
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  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    why preach it in the first place? If God can save Paul and Cornelius, by actually getting someone to take the Gospel for their salvation directly to them. Then why can't our Great God do just this for all the "elect"? Why would Jesus tell the Jews in John 5, who wanted to murder Him (verse 18), that He "mention it that you may be saved"? How could Jesus tell these Jews, that He wanted them to be saved, unless His Death was also for their sins, as 2 Peter 2:1 tells us, "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.". These Jews would be those mentioned here. Why would Paul tell the Jews in Acts 13:46, "Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles."? Note here, that it was the Jews who not only REJECTED the Gospel, which shows they could CHOOSE; but, it was them, and not God, who "judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life". the Gospel of eternal life is here preached to these Jews, they REJECTED it, but the fact that it was even preached to them, shows that the OFFER is for even though who will never be saved!
     
    #39 SavedByGrace, Mar 15, 2021
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It is true Cornelius bore the fruit of the Spirit, as I did, before hearing the gospel. But the gospel saves our lives through repentance and Holiness. We would not experience at any major level without it.
     
    #40 1689Dave, Mar 15, 2021
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