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The Invitation To Heaven

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Dave G

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Seventh, much of the so called Five Points of Calvinism, are destroyed by these two passages, and they are clerarly shown to be UNBIBLICAL.
Of course you know where I stand on this, SBG.

I maintain that none of what you have stated has nullified Romans 8:28-30, Romans 9, Romans 11:1-8, Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:1-10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Revelation 17:8, Matthew 13:10-11 and many more.
God's purposes according to election ( His choice ) will stand, or it is not all of grace.

Man trying to come up another way than strictly by His grace and mercy, will only be met with "I never knew you" SBG.
It's that simple.:(
That is why I urge all of my brothers and sisters to study His words carefully;
Sometimes things pop out on the pages after many times through it, and it is then that we have "aha" moments that humble us in the dust where we belong and exalt the Lord to His highest, where He belongs.

Salvation is by grace and God's efforts, not grace plus our efforts.
Gods does not wait on anyone's decision in order to save them...
He does a whole host of things without our express permission.

In addition, "Prevenient Grace" is not taught anywhere that I can find in His word.
But "electing grace" ( something that traditional "Calvinists" call "Irresistible Grace" ), is.
See Acts of the Apostles 16:14 for an example of this, as well as Paul's journey to Damascus.


Good evening to you, sir.
 
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Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
problem with your rant is, that you or your reformed buddies, cannot show from these two passages, where what I have said is wrong! There is NO other way to understand these passages, apart from the usual reformed theological twisting
We show you it each time.
You fail to address the response each time.
If the time comes when you really want meaningful discussion it will happen.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have quoted from the Holy Bible, if you think that I understand these passages wrong, then you should try to disprove it by showing what they do teach. Can you do this, or are you just some silly kid who always finds Biblical theology "funny"? :rolleyes: When you guys can't respond, you either laugh, or attack, or both! :eek:
The only good thing in the OP.is the bible quotes.

When you offer on the verses what you offer is laughable.

The whole human race is not mentioned.
Your agenda is clear.
No one can take your ideas seriously.

The free offer is just that.
It does not speak to ability or lack of ability.
Your ideas are like if someone flips over a garbage can and says...go ahead....sort through this rubbish!
They do. Find it is indeed rubbish, the. Flip over another garbage can and say do it again.
 
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SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Of course you know where I stand on this, SBG.

I maintain that none of what you have stated has nullified Romans 8:28-30, Romans 9, Romans 11:1-8, Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:1-10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Revelation 17:8, Matthew 13:10-11 and many more.
God's purposes according to election ( His choice ) will stand, or it is not all of grace.

Man trying to come up another way than strictly by His grace and mercy, will only be met with "I never knew you" SBG.
It's that simple.:(
That is why I urge all of my brothers and sisters to study His words carefully;
Sometimes things pop out on the pages after many times through it, and it is then that we have "aha" moments that humble us in the dust where we belong and exalt the Lord to His highest, where He belongs.

Salvation is by grace and God's efforts, not grace plus our efforts.
Gods does not wait on anyone's decision in order to save them...
He does a whole host of things without our express permission.

In addition, "Prevenient Grace" is not taught anywhere that I can find in His word.
But "electing grace" ( something that traditional "Calvinists" call "Irresistible Grace" ), is.
See Acts of the Apostles 16:14 for an example of this, as well as Paul's journey to Damascus.


Good evening to you, sir.

again, you fail to respond to the 2 passages in the OP, nor say what they do refer to, if not what I have said? Don't keep on going to other places in the Bible, to suppose that you can somehow get rid of what these passages very clearly DO teach. Jesus Christ is the Speaker, and He knows Best of what He is saying
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
We show you it each time.
You fail to address the response each time.
If the time comes when you really want meaningful discussion it will happen.

because you guys just rant on about your warped theological ideas, and ignore time and agian what the Bible says
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Matthew 22: And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.” ’ 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Luke 14: 15 When one of those who reclined at table with him heard these things, he said to him, “Blessed is everyone who will eat bread in the kingdom of God!” 16 But he said to him, “A man once gave a great banquet and invited many. 17 And at the time for the banquet he sent his servant to say to those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ 18 But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.’ 19 And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.’ 20 And another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ 21 So the servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house became angry and said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and crippled and blind and lame.’ 22 And the servant said, ‘Sir, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.’ 23 And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.’”

These two accounts are a clear presentation of the Gospel to the entire human race, without exception. It is also clear from this, that the Reformed/Calvinistic teaching of “election to salvation”, is unbiblical.

Firstly, we see that that sinners are INVITED to ACCEPT the Gospel OFFER, which clearly is UNIVERSAL.

Secondly, those who are INVITED are able to ACCEPT or REJECT this OFFER, showing that ALL sinners must possess the God-given ABILITY to CHOOSE.

Thirdly, those who are originally INVITED and made EXCUSES not to ACCEPT the OFFER, were REJECTED by the Lord, which shows that the Reformed/Calvinistic teaching of “Irresistible Grace”, cannot be correct.

Fourthly, we can see from Matthew’s account, that the Gospel OFFER is NOT for only the ELECT, as it very clearly says, that both the GOOD and BAD are to be INVITED to Heaven. This cannot mean only the ELECT, and must also include what is known as the NON ELECT, that is, the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE.

Fifthly, in Luke’s account, we read that ALL sinners are COMPELLED, the Greek is ἀναγκάζω, which means, “to necessitate, compel, by persuasion, entreaties”. Again, against the Reformed/Calvinistic teaching of “Irresistible Grace” and of “election to salvation”. As no “elect” person would ever have to be “persuaded or entreated” to ACCEPT the Gospel for their salvation!

Sixthly, Jesus Christ is The ONLY Way to get to Heaven, as seen from the UNINVITED person, who thought there was another “way”.

Seventh, much of the so called Five Points of Calvinism, are destroyed by these two passages, and they are clerarly shown to be UNBIBLICAL.
There is no offer of the gospel. This would make people their own savior by complying. It always says to Preach (announce) the gospel. Never to offer it. It is true God offered repentance to OT Israel under Law, but the law cannot save. This passage is not about salvation, but temporal deliverance from the curse of the law. Which happened in 70 AD in the siege of Jerusalem. You are trying to turn the gospel into law = a false gospel.
 
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1689Dave

Well-Known Member
WHAT does Jesus mean by INVITE? An "Invitaion" by defination means that it can be either accepted or rejected. This IS what the Bible says, regardless of what your theology might want it to say
Jesus says to preach (announce) the gospel. You turn the gospel into a law that cannot save. And grace into works when you read "offer" into it. It's a false gospel that cannot save. On the other hand, announcing the gospel informs those who believe of their salvation. If you must choose to believe, you don't believe.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
If you must choose to believe, you don't believe

so WHY does the Bible command that we CHOOSE? Like it is very clear from Joshua 24:15, "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" It is clear that the CHOICE is between the True God of the Bible, and the "gods" of this world, which is the devil. Why would Jesus tell the Jews in John chapter 5, who wanted to murder Him, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life." (39-40). Note, that these Jews REFUSE (a choice) to come to Jesus for eternal life. It is your theology that forbids you to accept what is clear in the Bible.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
so WHY does the Bible command that we CHOOSE? Like it is very clear from Joshua 24:15, "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" It is clear that the CHOICE is between the True God of the Bible, and the "gods" of this world, which is the devil. Why would Jesus tell the Jews in John chapter 5, who wanted to murder Him, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life." (39-40). Note, that these Jews REFUSE (a choice) to come to Jesus for eternal life. It is your theology that forbids you to accept what is clear in the Bible.
They chose under the law to avoid death. But it could not save. We are not under the law and the announcement of salvation for believers informs us of our salvation. If we must choose to believe, we turn the gospel back into law and grace into works.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
They chose under the law to avoid death. But it could not save. We are not under the law and the announcement of salvation for believers informs us of our salvation. If we must choose to believe, we turn the gospel back into law and grace into works.

Revelation 22:17 is very clear, "And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely." This is an INVITATION for salvation.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Revelation 22:17 is very clear, "And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely." This is an INVITATION for salvation.
Only a believer (a saved person) would accept this offer. Unbelievers would reject it.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
so, a person has to be "saved" first, and then they accept the offer to get "saved"? :rolleyes:
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)

according to your theology, the preaching of the Gospel Message to the entire human race, is no more than a sham! The "call" to salvation is universal, which is part of the Gospel, and then God says, sorry, not everyone can be saved, as I did not wish that everyone should be saved! The universal preaching of the Gospel becomes very insincere.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
because you guys just rant on about your warped theological ideas, and ignore time and agian what the Bible says
The only thing being ignored is your posts that lack substance.Until you acquire spiritual.eyesight no meaningful interaction can happen.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
according to your theology, the preaching of the Gospel Message to the entire human race, is no more than a sham! The "call" to salvation is universal, which is part of the Gospel, and then God says, sorry, not everyone can be saved, as I did not wish that everyone should be saved! The universal preaching of the Gospel becomes very insincere.
That's because you present it as a false "offer" of the gospel based on free will. I don't present it as anything more than an announcement of salvation for any who believe.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
I don't present it as anything more than an announcement of salvation for any who believe.

why preach it in the first place? If God can save Paul and Cornelius, by actually getting someone to take the Gospel for their salvation directly to them. Then why can't our Great God do just this for all the "elect"? Why would Jesus tell the Jews in John 5, who wanted to murder Him (verse 18), that He "mention it that you may be saved"? How could Jesus tell these Jews, that He wanted them to be saved, unless His Death was also for their sins, as 2 Peter 2:1 tells us, "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.". These Jews would be those mentioned here. Why would Paul tell the Jews in Acts 13:46, "Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles."? Note here, that it was the Jews who not only REJECTED the Gospel, which shows they could CHOOSE; but, it was them, and not God, who "judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life". the Gospel of eternal life is here preached to these Jews, they REJECTED it, but the fact that it was even preached to them, shows that the OFFER is for even though who will never be saved!
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
why preach it in the first place? If God can save Paul and Cornelius, by actually getting someone to take the Gospel for their salvation directly to them. Then why can't our Great God do just this for all the "elect"? Why would Jesus tell the Jews in John 5, who wanted to murder Him (verse 18), that He "mention it that you may be saved"? How could Jesus tell these Jews, that He wanted them to be saved, unless His Death was also for their sins, as 2 Peter 2:1 tells us, "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.". These Jews would be those mentioned here. Why would Paul tell the Jews in Acts 13:46, "Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles."? Note here, that it was the Jews who not only REJECTED the Gospel, which shows they could CHOOSE; but, it was them, and not God, who "judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life". the Gospel of eternal life is here preached to these Jews, they REJECTED it, but the fact that it was even preached to them, shows that the OFFER is for even though who will never be saved!
It is true Cornelius bore the fruit of the Spirit, as I did, before hearing the gospel. But the gospel saves our lives through repentance and Holiness. We would not experience at any major level without it.
 
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