On and on Y1 posts nonsense. As children of God, indwelt with the Holy Spirit, we call God Abba, Father. But the topic is the mistranslation of yhiothesia and the correct message, future bestowal of the promised benefits of being children of God.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Words Hard to Translate
- Thread starter John of Japan
- Start date
- Status
Do you mean the very sharp, real copy of a ninja sword that I have in my current avatar? Forget it. That would hurt!!!
Same reason I did not get it, also pretty expensive!
is that the one used for ritual suicide?Do you mean the very sharp, real copy of a ninja sword that I have in my current avatar? Forget it. That would hurt!!!
On and On, Y1 posts falsehood after falsehood. Pay no attention to claims clearly contradicted by scripture. Our bodily redemption is future. Full Stop Romans 8:23
The topic is the mistranslation of yhiothesia and the correct message, future bestowal of the promised benefits of being children of God.
Temple. Consider the two Greek words for “temple”: ἱερόν and ναός.
The word hieron (ἱερόν) is used for the entire Jewish temple complex. Therefore a word should be chosen which represents not just a single building, but a complex with a courtyard, etc. The word naos (ναός) is used for the actual temple building erected by Solomon or Herod.
Many English translations do not differentiate between the two meanings, but using two different words will clear up some of the misconceptions about events at the Jewish temple.
On the other hand, what makes this word difficult is that many cultures do not have a temple per se. Missionaries translating into third world tribal languages would certainly have trouble with these two words. If Nestorian missionary had come to ancient Japan (as they apparently did) before the coming of Buddhism to the country in the 6th century, he would have had to access the Chinese language to find a word for temple. The original religion of Japan was Shinto, which is nothing more than a form of spiritism with no real theology to it. Shinto has plenty of shrines, large and small, but no temples.
The word hieron (ἱερόν) is used for the entire Jewish temple complex. Therefore a word should be chosen which represents not just a single building, but a complex with a courtyard, etc. The word naos (ναός) is used for the actual temple building erected by Solomon or Herod.
Many English translations do not differentiate between the two meanings, but using two different words will clear up some of the misconceptions about events at the Jewish temple.
On the other hand, what makes this word difficult is that many cultures do not have a temple per se. Missionaries translating into third world tribal languages would certainly have trouble with these two words. If Nestorian missionary had come to ancient Japan (as they apparently did) before the coming of Buddhism to the country in the 6th century, he would have had to access the Chinese language to find a word for temple. The original religion of Japan was Shinto, which is nothing more than a form of spiritism with no real theology to it. Shinto has plenty of shrines, large and small, but no temples.
Nope, that would be the wakizashi (脇差), the shorter of the two swords a samurai habitually carried. Mine is a ninja sword, and ninjas didn't commit suicide. They assassinated people.
How about our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, or when ye are the temple of God?
Ephesians 1:5, "He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will," (NASB95)
A better translation might be "He predestined us to our promised bodily redemption as children of God, through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will.
A better translation might be "He predestined us to our promised bodily redemption as children of God, through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will.
Samurai would do that to save their honor?Nope, that would be the wakizashi (脇差), the shorter of the two swords a samurai habitually carried. Mine is a ninja sword, and ninjas didn't commit suicide. They assassinated people.
Galatians 4:5
so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Here again a better translation might be "so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the promised benefits of being children of God.
so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Here again a better translation might be "so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the promised benefits of being children of God.
No, when they have been dishonored and don't deserve to live.
Well, since it is now the 7th page, I'll add one more word that is pretty controversial. What shall we do with oinos (οἶνος), translated "wine" throughout the KJV and most other versions?? My research says that a word is needed to reflect the fact that the original has a wide range of meaning, and can mean grape juice as well as alcoholic wine. I know many people disagree, but there are passages in which it clearly refers to grape juice, such as in the LXX when it is actually used for oinos still in the grape! Many other passages are ambiguous. Therefore, I suggest an ambiguous word, a word with a wide range of meaning.
Regardless, it becomes even more difficult to translate when you are working with a language and culture that doesn't have grapes. This was true in Japan in the 19th century when the Bible was first translated. Japan at that time had no grapes, no vineyards, no wine of any kind. Thus, the first complete Japanese Bible, the Motoyaku, used sake (酒, pron. sakeh) for what the Lord made in John 2. That stuff is very strong, 14% to 16% alcohol. To me, that was definitely a mistaken translation. (This word is also used occasionally for all liquors.)
What to do, then? I'd say transliterate carefully with an explanatory footnote.
Funny story. Many years ago a radical defender of the KJV started a translation effort from the KJV into Japanese. I still have copies of his John ch. 1-4. For oinos he used the transliterated term for modern alcoholic wine, which is wain (ワイン), which is always alcoholic. Yet he was a teetotaler! Figure that one out. By the way, I believe he is still working on his translation after about 30 years, and to my knowledge has never published anything (like a Gospel of John, for example). Caveat: I'll defend the KJV myself--think it's the best ever in English--but am not radical on it.
Regardless, it becomes even more difficult to translate when you are working with a language and culture that doesn't have grapes. This was true in Japan in the 19th century when the Bible was first translated. Japan at that time had no grapes, no vineyards, no wine of any kind. Thus, the first complete Japanese Bible, the Motoyaku, used sake (酒, pron. sakeh) for what the Lord made in John 2. That stuff is very strong, 14% to 16% alcohol. To me, that was definitely a mistaken translation. (This word is also used occasionally for all liquors.)
What to do, then? I'd say transliterate carefully with an explanatory footnote.
Funny story. Many years ago a radical defender of the KJV started a translation effort from the KJV into Japanese. I still have copies of his John ch. 1-4. For oinos he used the transliterated term for modern alcoholic wine, which is wain (ワイン), which is always alcoholic. Yet he was a teetotaler! Figure that one out. By the way, I believe he is still working on his translation after about 30 years, and to my knowledge has never published anything (like a Gospel of John, for example). Caveat: I'll defend the KJV myself--think it's the best ever in English--but am not radical on it.
Last edited:
Same word.
How about Slave or servant?
Y1 makes bogus claims, but seldom if ever supports his bogus views from scripture.
We are not now bodily redeemed, that is future per Romans 8:33.
JOJ said:
Amen!! Translators should translate each source language word or phrase meaning into a unique word or phrase in the target language to provide clarity. For example, instead of just temple, perhaps temple complex should be used when the courtyard or other appendage is included.
- Status