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What is Catholicism?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by atpollard, Mar 25, 2021.

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  1. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

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    One last question about Heb 10:27: ask yourself, after you were saved did you ever commit a deliberate willful sin? If you say no, I would say you're probably a liar and you just sinned. We all sin with our minds or with our hands and if there is no more sacrifice but only judgment and condemnation then we are all doomed. It means we must be sinless after we are saved and that Christ's sacrifice only covered sin prior to our conversion. Being sinless on our own is impossible so it must mean something else or it must be spoken about someone else. The judgment spoken of would have to be about people who ignore the knowledge of the truth and go back to their old ways. Having the knowledge of the truth doesn't make them saved so these people would be contrasted to The Hebrew church who had faith.

    What do we do when we sin; I myself regret my sin even while I am committing it, then I beat myself up over it and I ask for forgiveness, but more importantly what does God do when we sin? Does God kick you out of His house or does He admonish you or punish you until you repent and change your ways? No sacrifice involved; God only wants a change of heart. Psalms 51:17


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    #181 Titus Tarnum, Mar 31, 2021
  2. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit that it makes me a little uncomfortable to defend beliefs that are not my own (I am not a Catholic), but I think from the EWTN explanation that they would agree that all sins were "forgiven" by the blood and at the cross. Let me ask you this, as a Christian, would you LIKE a reassurance from God that some specific sin that you may have recently confessed really was forgiven at the cross if He offered an opportunity for you to obtain such a reassurance while you were still alive? Whether or not you accept the invitation to hear God reassure you will not change the REALITY of your forgiveness, it will just put your mind at ease (and God wants you to KNOW that He has forgiven your sin).

    So the Mass is an opportunity to return to the foot of the cross and find reassurance that Christ loved you more than His own life and that your sin really is forgiven because of His Body (broken for YOU) and His blood (shed for YOU). As Baptists, it is what we do "symbolically" to remind us of a spiritual reality that ties us to Christ both in the grave and in His future Glory. As Catholics, they appear to do it "metaphysically" to link themselves spiritually to the same Christ and the same crucifixion and resurrection.

    There are many points of tension between Baptists and Catholics, but I think the "Sacrifice of the Mass" is closer to one of "semantics".
     
    #182 atpollard, Mar 31, 2021
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  3. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

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    Thecatholicspirit.com
    the Eucharist and the forgiveness of sins

    One of the greatest blessings and least known facts about the Eucharist is that, in the reception of holy Communion, a person’s venial sins are forgiven.
    The Eucharist is one of four sacraments that imparts the forgiveness of sins. The waters of baptism wash away all prior sins. Both sacraments of healing — reconciliation and anointing — also grant forgiveness. The sacrament of reconciliation grants the absolution of both mortal and venial sins, and it offers God’s pardon and peace. And the instruction to the sacrament of anointing says, “If they have committed any sins, their sins will be forgiven them” (see Jas 5:15).

    This doesn't sound like the system you defended...


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    #183 Titus Tarnum, Mar 31, 2021
  4. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Which I cannot explain.
    I can only note that the EWTN Article described it differently.
    I leave it to a Catholic to sort out the fine details.
     
    #184 atpollard, Mar 31, 2021
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    #185 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All 3 of Them are equally "the God"
     
    #186 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Per Rome, yes they are!
     
    #187 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    3 Persons equally God, as God is One Being!
     
    #188 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think that is God speaking down us in terminology that we can relate to!
     
    #189 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Right now, are there 3 Persons as One God in Heaven?
     
    #190 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
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  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Nor does it sound like the true Gospel!
     
    #191 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Just leave it as being rank heresy at worst, or outright error at best!
     
    #192 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus died and paid for all of our sins!
     
    #193 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
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  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Eucharist was established by Jesus Christ. Just like Baptism they are done independently of scripture. The Apostles for example don't baptize because it is written in the bible.......its written in the bible because they baptize.

    Same goes for communion far older then the written new testament.

    What the Eucharist "can do" far exceeds, we are suppose to believe the in actual REAL PRESENCE of God. That is 100% God, actual God.

    Keep in Mind we don't share an OBSESSION with SALVATION, like some folks. Some folks have this survival idolatry where preserving their immortality at all costs is the absolute focus. Where GEE what exactly is the BARE MINIMUM for God not to KILL ME.

    This attitude we would consider disgusting and pathetic, the subject we are whining about now deflects from the sincere genuine love of God and neighbor.

    We are bombarded with folks letting us know, Loving God and Loving Neighbor is not going to earn you salvation. I think those folks are missing out on the HIGHEST REWARD THERE IS-----> Loving God and Loving Neighbor.

    Its always a SELFISH reason well what am I going to get out of it. Loving GOD doesn't earn me salvation, LOVING GOD doesn't even earn 5$.

    We CATHOLICS believe this attitude is toxic, its like spitting in the face of God. We see it post after post. The ironic thing is we get damned for this, I serve a devil pope, I worship a mary goddess, I worship statues, Our doctrines are evil.

    We still say to ourselves these are still our brothers and sisters in Christ they just mixing up their priorities.

    Why isn't the priority how to love God and neighbor? Instead the SELFISH priority is HOW DO I SAVE MY OWN ASS!?
     
    #194 utilyan, Mar 31, 2021
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes and no. Hosea 11:9, ". . . for I am God, and not man; . . ." Malachi 3:6, ". . . For I am the LORD, I change not; . . ." 1 Timothy 2:5, ". . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; . . ."
     
    #195 37818, Mar 31, 2021
  16. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Some good points in this part (given Catholic assumptions about literal presence).

    Meh ... sort of a "yes and no" ... from where I sit.

    I can agree that serving God (obeying the two Greatest Commandments) is a better focus than personal salvation.
    But it sort of feels like THE TRUTH doesn't really matter, either. For a former Atheist ... nothing is more important than the TRUTH. If our sins were all forgiven at Calvary, then I want to know ... and if only some of our sins were forgiven, then I want to know that. Not because of MY salvation, but because I want to KNOW that God is who He says that He is. (and if Jesus is not who he says he is, then I want to know that, too.)

    That is where embracing Tradition contrary to Scripture is a problem for me and why I stepped away from the Catechism for Inquirers. I respect the RCC too much to affirm what I cannot believe.
     
    #196 atpollard, Mar 31, 2021
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So Jesus is not fully God?
     
    #197 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Roman in the ultimate sense vests saving authority into Rome and the sacraments, and gives the Cross and Jesus lip service!
     
    #198 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2021
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  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    As a Baptist (non-Roman) ... "What must I do to be saved?" [Acts 16:30]
     
    #199 atpollard, Mar 31, 2021
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  20. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    With 198 posts, this thread is closed.
     
    #200 Squire Robertsson, Mar 31, 2021
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