What Do You Believe about the Millennium?

[Scripture More Accurately]

OK... Since I am the one that chose other I will tell you... I agree with Iconoclast that the Kingdom has already started... I also agree with canadyjd, that holds to the Amil view that Apocalyptic literature of the OT and the NT is symbolic... I grew up in a church that NEVER taught a rapture or a millennium reign... When I came here many years ago, I wondered why as they taught something here, I NEVER heard... So I looked for the source and I found it... If you want to follow the writing of two Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest (Manuel De Lucunza and Francisco Ribera) in the 1500's you are free to do that, Darby did it and sold you all a bill of goods... When the Lord comes again according to scripture the world will be burned up and the saints of God will be resurrected and go home to be with the Lord in Heaven.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Btw... You can look it up for yourself, just like I did and be delivered by what I have coined Protestant Purgatory!... Brother Glen

I'm not interested in reading or discussing who said what when, etc. If you want to defend what you believe biblically . . .

 

[Alan Gross]

OK... Since I am the one that chose other I will tell you... I agree with Iconoclast that the Kingdom has already started... I also agree with canadyjd, that holds to the Amil view that Apocalyptic literature of the OT and the NT is symbolic... I grew up in a church that NEVER taught a rapture or a millennium reign... When I came here many years ago, I wondered why as they taught something here, I NEVER heard... So I looked for the source and I found it... If you want to follow the writing of two Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest (Manuel De Lucunza and Francisco Ribera) in the 1500's you are free to do that, Darby did it and sold you all a bill of goods... When the Lord comes again according to scripture the world will be burned up and the saints of God will be resurrected and go home to be with the Lord in Heaven.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Btw... You can look it up for yourself, just like I did and be delivered by what I have coined Protestant Purgatory!... Brother Glen

That's what my Bible teaches.

 

[tyndale1946]

I'm not interested in reading or discussing who said what when, etc. If you want to defend what you believe biblically . . .

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Btw... I see a RESURRECTION only!... Show me a millennial reign?... Brother Glen

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Btw... I see a RESURRECTION only!... Show me a millennial reign?... Brother Glen

Really?

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[37818]

Historic Premillennialism - "Generally postribulational . . . Israel and the church are not seen as completely distinct at all times. The millennial kingdom is not restricted to a thousand years. It began in heaven at the first coming of Christ and continues at the second coming of Christ."

I am postribulational. I understand the whole millennium to begin after Christ's second appearing, Hebrews 9:28.

 

[asterisktom]

It would be good to know what position about the millennium whoever has chosen "other" actually holds.

I am another "other". Although I am no longer Amillennial I am indebted to William Hendriksen for insight on how to approach Revelation. He points out in "More than Conquerors" (p.38):

"The entire book [of Revelation] consists of changing scenes like these, of moving pictures and active symbols."...

"N.B. the first verse of the book 'and he made it known by means of signs (or symbols)'."

So when we come to the 1000 years it is necessary to consider the possibility that this is symbolic - which it is - just like much of the other symbolism in this book, like the angel with the huge pillar-legs, one on land, the other in the sea.

I wrote more on this topic many years ago in this forum:

The KEY is by the Door Revelation 1:1

BTW, for those who do not know me already, I am Full Preterist.

 

[percho]

19 people have voted so I am late with the question therefore I will ask this way; Acts 2:34 for David did not go up to the heavens, and he saith himself: The Lord saith to my lord, Sit thou at my right hand,

What does that verse mean and does it have any effect upon your answer?
Who is the Lord?
Who is, the lord, of my lord?

And the messenger said to her, 'Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favour with God; and lo, thou shalt conceive in the womb, and shalt bring forth a son, and call his name Jesus; he shall be great, and Son of the Highest he shall be called, and the Lord God shall give him the throne of David his father, and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.' Luke 1:30-33

Who is who in those verses? Where is, this, Jesus presently and what is he doing? Why do we have, the CCP? Why do we have Putin? Why do we have Joe Biden in the WH? How long do you think he will be there? Who will be next? KH? Have you had your passport shot yet? Who do you believfe is the prince over all those? No DJT is not the answer. Same prince IMHO.

Do those questions appear to say the devil is chained?

Lord teach us to pray.

WHY!

 

[canadyjd]

This does not answer my question. If you hold that it is symbolic, how much of it is symbolic and how do you know objectively what is symbolic and what is not?

I usually don’t like to write long answers, primarily because they are ignored, but I’ll try to go into more detail.

To determine what is symbolic in any passage, you have to understand the context, the genre, the writer’s background, the way words and phrases have been used prior by this author and by others of the same culture.

Hebrew culture traditionally uses “1000” not as an exact number, but as a very large number too big to count. Samson killed “1000” men with the jawbone of an ass. Was it exactly “1000”? No, just a very large number.

Revelation says the saints will reign with Jesus for “1000” years. From that statement, folks have imagined all sorts outcomes.

Most focus on a thousand year reign of Christ on the earth. Revelation does not say that Jesus reigns for 1000 years on the earth. Jesus reigns forever.

Revelation says the saints will reign with Jesus for 1000 years. The focus of the passage is on the reward given to saints for their faithfulness in the face of persecution. That is the context.

All the focus on a 1000 year earthly reign takes the passage out of context to develop a theology that simply isn’t supported by the passage.

From that misunderstanding, we build further error by thinking the second coming of Christ isn’t really the final coming of Christ and the judgement that follows.

Error: some saints are left behind after Christ returns. Directly contradicts Christ’s words in Matthew.

Error: There is a separate future for Israel and the church. Directly contradicts Paul’s teaching in Ephesians that both groups have become One New Man by Christ’s work in the cross. To separate the two groups, the work of the cross must be undone, which is impossible.

Error: Christ reigns on the present earth for 1000 years and has a throne in Jerusalem.

Christ sits on the throne in heaven, or at the right hand of the Father who sits on the throne. This earth is burned up. No more earth. New heaven new earth are symbolic of our new existence in the presence of God in heaven.

peace to you

 

[percho]

I am postribulational. I understand the whole millennium to begin after Christ's second appearing,

 

[Yeshua1]

Will there be a literal 1000-year period in the future when Christ will rule on the earth with a rod of iron from Jerusalem?

From Moody's Handbook of Theology:

Amillennialism - "The teaching that there will be no literal millennium following Christ's return to the earth."

Postmillennialism - "Popular in the nineteenth century, this view holds that the world will become progressively better with the ultimate triumph of the gospel. Christ will return after the millennium."

Dispensational Premillennialism - "The church will be raptured before the Tribulation when God will again focus on Israel in His plan for the world. Christ will return at the end of the Tribulation to rescue Israel and establish the Millennium."

Historic Premillennialism - "Generally postribulational . . . Israel and the church are not seen as completely distinct at all times. The millennial kingdom is not restricted to a thousand years. It began in heaven at the first coming of Christ and continues at the second coming of Christ."

Was a Dispy premil pre trib, now CT and historical premil

 

[canadyjd]

Really?..
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:....neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The passage doesn’t say Jesus reigned on the earth for 1000 years.

The context of the passage is the reward given to saints for faithfulness to Christ in the midst of persecution. Their “reward” is to reign with Christ for 1000 years.

Christ reigns forever in heaven. The earth is burned up.

peace to you

 

[Dave G]

Will there be a literal 1000-year period in the future when Christ will rule on the earth with a rod of iron from Jerusalem?

Yes.
Micah 4, Revelation 20:1-6 and many others.

Historic Premillennialism - "Generally postribulational . . . Israel and the church are not seen as completely distinct at all times. The millennial kingdom is not restricted to a thousand years. It began in heaven at the first coming of Christ and continues at the second coming of Christ."

This is the closest on your list to what I see from the Scriptures, so that is how I voted.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

The passage doesn’t say Jesus reigned on the earth for 1000 years.

The context of the passage is the reward given to saints for faithfulness to Christ in the midst of persecution. Their “reward” is to reign with Christ for 1000 years.

Christ reigns forever in heaven. The earth is burned up.

peace to you

No, the context is very specific to people who were beheaded, not just people who were persecuted.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The context also specifies that these were people who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, and had not received his mark on either foreheads or their hands. This passage is not about generic persecution or generic faithfulness to Christ.

Interestingly, you chose to omit those parts from my post when you quoted the verse in your reply. Hmm.

 

[Dave G]

The passage doesn’t say Jesus reigned on the earth for 1000 years.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." ( Revelation 20:7-10 ).

 

[Iconoclast]

Really?

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

They have been reigning with him for two millenniums now.

 

[Iconoclast]

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." ( Revelation 20:7-10 ).

Where does this say Jesus was on the earth with these saints?

 

[Dave G]

Where does this say Jesus was on the earth with these saints?

" Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." ( Revelation 20:6 ).


" But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills;
and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." ( Micah 4:1-2 ).

Also see Zechariah 14:3-21.

 

[canadyjd]

No, the context is very specific to people who were beheaded, not just people who were persecuted.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The context also specifies that these were people who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, and had not received his mark on either foreheads or their hands. This passage is not about generic persecution or generic faithfulness to Christ.

Interestingly, you chose to omit those parts from my post when you quoted the verse in your reply. Hmm.

OK, only those beheaded will reign with Christ for 1000 years. That doesn’t change the context at all.

Interesting you chose to focus on that instead of acknowledging that the passage...

1. Doesn’t say Christ reigns on the earth for 1000 years

2: The context of the passage is on the reward these saints receive for faithfulness to Christ in the midst of persecution (ending in beheading not just general persecution), not on a separate 1000 year reign of Christ someone else than heaven,

The passage doesn’t support 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth.

peace to you

 

[Iconoclast]

" Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." ( Revelation 20:6 ).


" But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills;
and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." ( Micah 4:1-2 ).

Also see Zechariah 14:3-21.

Heb12:22-29the question is which Zion and Jerusalem?
Hebrews says it is the Heavenly.

 

[Dave G]

Where does this say Jesus was on the earth with these saints?

" And it shall come to pass in the last days, [that] the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways,and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord." ( Isaiah 2:2-4 ).

Heb12:22-29the question is which Zion and Jerusalem?
Hebrews says it is the Heavenly.

You honestly don't see it, do you Tony?
A 1000 year reign at Jerusalem, ruling the nations with a rod of iron and His saints there ruling along with Him.... followed by the Judgment, new heavens and a new earth.

It's all in there, my friend.