Greg gets it right!

[asterisktom]

"Do we romance about three Resurrections? Do we promise the gluttony of the Millennium? Do we declare that the Jewish animal-sacrifices shall be restored? Do we lower men's hopes again to the Jerusalem below, imagining its rebuilding with stones of a more brilliant material? What charge like these can be brought against us, that our company should be reckoned a thing to be avoided?" - Gregory of Nyssa, AD 336-395

 

[Marooncat79]

To announce that the animal sacrafice will be restored and efficacious is to proclaim blasphemy against the atonement of Christ

 

[atpollard]

I don't follow this closely, but wasn't it the Beast and his Prophet in the temple deceiving people during the first 3.5 years in Revelation? Then comes the persecution of all who refuse the mark of the beast (according to dispensation teaching).

I didn't think there was a temple sacrifice under the millennial rule of Christ.

[I just want to make sure we are not thrashing a strawman that no one is teaching.]

 

[atpollard]

I googled it and found this:

Though it may sound strange, the Bible does indicate that animal sacrifices will take place during the millennial kingdom. Ezekiel 43—46 offers the most developed prophecies regarding these practices as it deals with the Jewish temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom and what takes place in it. Specifically, the line of Zadok will offer sacrifices (44:15). Specific animal sacrifices are described in chapters 45—46 and include rams, lambs, and bulls.

In addition to Ezekiel, Isaiah discusses sacrifices in the future millennial kingdom, stating: "their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar" (Isaiah 56:7). Zechariah 14:16 adds, "Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths." This celebration would also include animal sacrifices. Jeremiah 33:18 notes that during this time period, "the Levitical priests shall never lack a man in my presence to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to make sacrifices forever."
​

... So carry on. I stand corrected. (and this is why I tend to avoid eschatology topics).

 

[kyredneck]

I don't follow this closely,

...most likely due to your miscomprehension of plain time statements such as 'the time is at hand, 'must shortly come to pass', 'I come quickly', 'in just a very little while', 'shall in no wise taste of death', 'this generation shall not pass away', etc., etc., to mean 'thousands of years and still waiting'.

 

[atpollard]

...most likely due to your miscomprehension of plain time statements such as 'the time is at hand, 'must shortly come to pass', 'I come quickly', 'in just a very little while', 'shall in no wise taste of death', 'this generation shall not pass away', etc., etc., to mean 'thousands of years and still waiting'.

Actually no.

I find some clear and unambiguous statements in the Gospels and the Apostolic Letters that are intriguing ... these I accept at face value. Then there is the VERY symbolic imagery in the vision of Revelation that is open to a broad array of interpretations by individuals utterly convinced that their understanding the THE CORRECT understanding. Of course to understand Revelation, one must study the equally cryptic portions of Daniel.

While it might be reasonably possible to draw a consensus on the imagery between Daniel and Revelation and check that against the clear passages sprinkled throughout the NT as a sort of "bumper guard" to keep us out of the gutters, one now needs to determine which parts of Isiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah are literal and figurative prophecies, and whether each has already been fulfilled, been fulfilled in part or yet to be fulfilled.

Let us assume, just for the sake of discussion, that I invest the years unraveling this prophetic Gordian knot. Let us further assume that I arrive at a correct understanding of all of the details of eschatology that are knowable by man. That will increase the number of people arguing that THEIR answer is the CORRECT answer by 1. It will serve no one in this life (nobody ever got saved because of a good understanding of the end of the world).

So the effort will yield no result that edifies me or glorifies God ... hence my indifference to mysteries that do not matter.

I actually lean "amillenial", but am open to the possibility that Jesus has unfinished OT promises to David.

 

[Yeshua1]

...most likely due to your miscomprehension of plain time statements such as 'the time is at hand, 'must shortly come to pass', 'I come quickly', 'in just a very little while', 'shall in no wise taste of death', 'this generation shall not pass away', etc., etc., to mean 'thousands of years and still waiting'.

Second Coming still future event!

 

[Yeshua1]

I googled it and found this:

Though it may sound strange, the Bible does indicate that animal sacrifices will take place during the millennial kingdom. Ezekiel 43—46 offers the most developed prophecies regarding these practices as it deals with the Jewish temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom and what takes place in it. Specifically, the line of Zadok will offer sacrifices (44:15). Specific animal sacrifices are described in chapters 45—46 and include rams, lambs, and bulls.

In addition to Ezekiel, Isaiah discusses sacrifices in the future millennial kingdom, stating: "their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar" (Isaiah 56:7). Zechariah 14:16 adds, "Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths." This celebration would also include animal sacrifices. Jeremiah 33:18 notes that during this time period, "the Levitical priests shall never lack a man in my presence to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to make sacrifices forever."
​

... So carry on. I stand corrected. (and this is why I tend to avoid eschatology topics).

They would be memorials of the Lord Jesus acts accomplished to finish our salvation, not for forgiveness of sins!

 

[asterisktom]

...most likely due to your miscomprehension of plain time statements such as 'the time is at hand, 'must shortly come to pass', 'I come quickly', 'in just a very little while', 'shall in no wise taste of death', 'this generation shall not pass away', etc., etc., to mean 'thousands of years and still waiting'.

And I just wonder how much plainer can language get? It would be one thing if there was only a single verse that seemed to imply "soonness". But there are over a dozen that say it plainly and twice as many more that strongly imply it.

 

[asterisktom]

They would be memorials of the Lord Jesus acts accomplished to finish our salvation, not for forgiveness of sins!

Memorials? Have you actually read those passages in Ezekiel?

 

[Yeshua1]

Memorials? Have you actually read those passages in Ezekiel?

Yes, have you?

 

[asterisktom]

Yes, have you?

I am sure more often and more carefully than you, or you would not have written what you did.

Ezek. 43 is where your memorial offerings begin to look highly doubtful:

"19 you shall give to the Levitical priests of the family of Zadok, who draw near to me to minister to me, declares the Lord God, a bull from the herd for a sin offering."

And that is just one of about twenty verses to the end of chapter 46 that put holes in this notion of a future Temple with mere memorial sacrifices.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am sure more often and more carefully than you, or you would not have written what you did.

I do not read into it though that its all spiritual allegory!

 

[asterisktom]

I do not read into it though that its all spiritual allegory!

Whether it is allegory or not is not the point. You are the one who seems to be making "sin offering" into something that it is not.

 

[asterisktom]

They would be memorials of the Lord Jesus acts accomplished to finish our salvation, not for forgiveness of sins!

Here is another passage for you to think about. Hopefully this will get you to quit denigrating the precious once-for-all word of Christ:

"18 “Thus says the Lord God: In the first month, on the first day of the month, you shall take a bull from the herd without blemish, and purify the sanctuary. 19 The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it on the doorposts of the temple, the four corners of the ledge of the altar, and the posts of the gate of the inner court. 20 You shall do the same on the seventh day of the month for anyone who has sinned through error or ignorance; so you shall make atonement for the temple."

"Sin offering" and "atonement" go way beyond mere memorial. This is no memorial offering. The only memorial offering ni the Bible AFAIK is the Altar Ed in Joshua.

 

[Yeshua1]

Here is another passage for you to think about. Hopefully this will get you to quit denigrating the precious once-for-all word of Christ:

"18 “Thus says the Lord God: In the first month, on the first day of the month, you shall take a bull from the herd without blemish, and purify the sanctuary. 19 The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it on the doorposts of the temple, the four corners of the ledge of the altar, and the posts of the gate of the inner court. 20 You shall do the same on the seventh day of the month for anyone who has sinned through error or ignorance; so you shall make atonement for the temple."

"Sin offering" and "atonement" go way beyond mere memorial. This is no memorial offering. The only memorial offering ni the Bible AFAIK is the Altar Ed in Joshua.

Supreme irony that one holding to full preterism would accuse me of denigrating the scriptures!

 

[asterisktom]

"Do we romance about three Resurrections? Do we promise the gluttony of the Millennium? Do we declare that the Jewish animal-sacrifices shall be restored? Do we lower men's hopes again to the Jerusalem below, imagining its rebuilding with stones of a more brilliant material? What charge like these can be brought against us, that our company should be reckoned a thing to be avoided?" - Gregory of Nyssa, AD 336-395

How supremely ironic and laughable that those of us who do not believe the futurist Millennium should so often be labeled as anti-semitic. Who are the real anti-semites? The very ones who consign the Jews to a ghetto after-life, a shabby heaven of sin, death, labor, and pointless sacrifices. We non-Jews will be free of all these but the believing Jews have to go through all of this again. Why? The pernicious theology of Darby, Schofield, et al demand it.

 

[asterisktom]

Supreme irony that one holding to full preterism would accuse me of denigrating the scriptures!

Focus on the topic. Do not deflect or obfuscate. The points I make here are held by many, not just Preterists.

 

[Yeshua1]

How supremely ironic and laughable that those of us who do not believe the futurist Millennium should so often be labeled as anti-semitic. Who are the real anti-semites? The very ones who consign the Jews to a ghetto after-life, a shabby heaven of sin, death, labor, and pointless sacrifices. We non-Jews will be free of all these but the believing Jews have to go through all of this again. Why? The pernicious theology of Darby, Schofield, et al demand it.

I am not saying that you are ant semitic, just that wrong on eschatology!

 

[asterisktom]

Hopefully this will get you to quit denigrating the precious once-for-all word of Christ:

Typo: I meant to write "once-for-all work of Christ" but I guess either way is correct.