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Featured General Redemption.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Apr 19, 2021.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You believe falsely.
    The phrase "You cannot have your cake and eat it too" applies to your assertion.
    Either all are redeemed (General redemption) or only those who believe are redeemed (Particular redemption). It cannot be both.
    Either the world is universally atoned by the shed blood payment of Christ or only those who believe are atoned by the shed blood payment of Christ. It cannot be both.
    Either God is fully in absolute control over his creation or God is not in control. Rogue molecules who are independent of the creator exist. It cannot be both.

    The Bible gives no fraction of an inch to the concept of rogue actions outside of the ordained agreement of God. Any attempt to make man somehow independent of his Creator is an attempt to bring down God and cheapen his holy word. It is an open rebellion against the Almighty.
     
    #81 AustinC, Apr 21, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    God's forgiveness?
     
    #82 1689Dave, Apr 21, 2021
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Can't you see they already believed or they would not ask for directions from Paul?
     
    #83 1689Dave, Apr 21, 2021
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Neither. But that by trusting the Lord Jesus Christ, following that trust he would be saved. . . . σωθηση . . . . [thou] shalt be saved.
     
    #84 37818, Apr 21, 2021
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The text says no such thing.
     
    #85 37818, Apr 21, 2021
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Prove general redemption from the word of God is impossible. It is my firm Biblical understanding both general redemption and particular redemption are true. Disallowing and redefining the meanings does not make the denial of general redemption true.
     
    #86 37818, Apr 21, 2021
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #87 37818, Apr 21, 2021
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Where you lack understanding is in faith being a fruit of the Holy Spirit you must have before you can believe. "Whoever believes has eternal life" is how you spot the redeemed. It does not say "whoever chooses to believe" will merit salvation. Your position rejects salvation by grace altogether.

    It changes the gospel into law. It misrepresents God as a bully demanding that people "say uncle" or face everlasting torture. It turns grace into works for the self-righteous to save their own selves. They steal God's glory in Salvation placing it on themselves.

    Things don't get too much more wicked than this sort of teaching when you think about it.
     
    #88 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    To the believer, forgiveness amounts to being clothed in Christ's (God's very own) righteousness (Roman's 5). Forgiveness is unconditional and eternally secure.
     
    #89 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It shows a believing jailor asking Paul for directions. Had he not believed, he would not have asked.
     
    #90 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Are you really saying that? That is crazy talk.
     
    #91 37818, Apr 22, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You cannot discern spiritual truth unless you first have the Holy Spirit. Or believe truthfully since faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. You think the gospel is a law to obey. It is not. It is good news about the salvation of all who believe by grace.
     
    #92 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Again?
     
    #93 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Why would the jailor ask Paul for directions if he didn't believe (have salvation according to Jesus)? BTW, Universal atonement doesn't save anyone.
     
    #94 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. You still did not answer directly Acts 10:43 not Matthew 18:33-35.
     
    #95 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Because he was not yet saved. And by what Paul said his belief comes before salvation. Do you deny the plain teaching?
     
    #96 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    One has to believe first to receive the in dwelling Holy Spirit in order to have the fruit of the Spirit.
     
    #97 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Faith comes from the Holy Spirit. Not you.
     
    #98 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Jesus says whoever believes is saved.
     
    #99 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You want me to recite your error.
     
    #100 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
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