General Redemption.

[AustinC]

In this thread the Biblical truth of particular redemption is not at issue.

What is at issue can it be shown, proven general redemption cannot also be true. I believe in both the general and particular redemption.

You believe falsely.
The phrase "You cannot have your cake and eat it too" applies to your assertion.
Either all are redeemed (General redemption) or only those who believe are redeemed (Particular redemption). It cannot be both.
Either the world is universally atoned by the shed blood payment of Christ or only those who believe are atoned by the shed blood payment of Christ. It cannot be both.
Either God is fully in absolute control over his creation or God is not in control. Rogue molecules who are independent of the creator exist. It cannot be both.

The Bible gives no fraction of an inch to the concept of rogue actions outside of the ordained agreement of God. Any attempt to make man somehow independent of his Creator is an attempt to bring down God and cheapen his holy word. It is an open rebellion against the Almighty.

 

[1689Dave]

You still did not answer what was asked:

God's forgiveness?

 

[1689Dave]

Did they lie? ". . . what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, . . ."

Can't you see they already believed or they would not ask for directions from Paul?

 

[37818]

Was giving them a law to keep, thereby turning the gospel into law which cannot save? Or assuring them that their belief shows they are saved?

Neither. But that by trusting the Lord Jesus Christ, following that trust he would be saved. . . . σωθηση . . . . [thou] shalt be saved.

 

[37818]

Can't you see they already believed or they would not ask for directions from Paul?

The text says no such thing.

 

[37818]

Either all are redeemed (General redemption) or only those who believe are redeemed (Particular redemption). It cannot be both.

Prove general redemption from the word of God is impossible. It is my firm Biblical understanding both general redemption and particular redemption are true. Disallowing and redefining the meanings does not make the denial of general redemption true.

 

[37818]

God's forgiveness?

What type:

Which type of forgiveness do you trust in?
Matthew 18:33-35.
Or.
Acts of the Apostles 10:43.

 

[1689Dave]

Neither. But that by trusting the Lord Jesus Christ, following that trust he would be saved. . . . σωθηση . . . . [thou] shalt be saved.

Where you lack understanding is in faith being a fruit of the Holy Spirit you must have before you can believe. "Whoever believes has eternal life" is how you spot the redeemed. It does not say "whoever chooses to believe" will merit salvation. Your position rejects salvation by grace altogether.

It changes the gospel into law. It misrepresents God as a bully demanding that people "say uncle" or face everlasting torture. It turns grace into works for the self-righteous to save their own selves. They steal God's glory in Salvation placing it on themselves.

Things don't get too much more wicked than this sort of teaching when you think about it.

 

[1689Dave]

What type:

To the believer, forgiveness amounts to being clothed in Christ's (God's very own) righteousness (Roman's 5). Forgiveness is unconditional and eternally secure.

 

[1689Dave]

The text says no such thing.

It shows a believing jailor asking Paul for directions. Had he not believed, he would not have asked.

 

[37818]

Where you lack understanding is in faith being a fruit of the Holy Spirit you must have before you can believe.

Are you really saying that? That is crazy talk.

 

[1689Dave]

Are you really that? That is crazy talk.

You cannot discern spiritual truth unless you first have the Holy Spirit. Or believe truthfully since faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. You think the gospel is a law to obey. It is not. It is good news about the salvation of all who believe by grace.

 

[37818]

It shows a believing jailor asking Paul for directions. Had he not believed, he would not have asked.

Again?

 

[1689Dave]

Again?

Why would the jailor ask Paul for directions if he didn't believe (have salvation according to Jesus)? BTW, Universal atonement doesn't save anyone.

 

[37818]

To the believer, forgiveness amounts to being clothed in Christ's (God's very own) righteousness (Roman's 5). Forgiveness is unconditional and eternally secure.

Ok. You still did not answer directly Acts 10:43 not Matthew 18:33-35.

 

[37818]

Why would the jailor ask Paul for directions if he didn't believe (have salvation according to Jesus)? BTW, Universal atonement doesn't save anyone.

Because he was not yet saved. And by what Paul said his belief comes before salvation. Do you deny the plain teaching?

 

[37818]

You cannot discern spiritual truth unless you first have the Holy Spirit. Or believe truthfully since faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. You think the gospel is a law to obey. It is not. It is good news about the salvation of all who believe by grace.

One has to believe first to receive the in dwelling Holy Spirit in order to have the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[1689Dave]

One has to believe first to receive the in dwelling Holy Spirit in order to have the fruit of the Spirit.

Faith comes from the Holy Spirit. Not you.

 

[1689Dave]

Because he was not yet saved. And by what Paul said his belief comes before salvation. Do you deny the plain teaching?

Jesus says whoever believes is saved.

 

[1689Dave]

Ok. You still did not answer directly Acts 10:43 not Matthew 18:33-35.

You want me to recite your error.