One word reply: baloney!
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Kingdom Theology
- Thread starter JonC
- Start date
- Status
Four words, a colon and an emoji...One word reply: baloney!
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
The problem is, most reject Christ's gospel of the kingdom (biblical Amillennialism) and side with the Pharisees' version, Premillennialism/Dispensationalism instead.
Although I am neither Post- nor A-mill I see those as a tremendous improvement over Premill. They have a better grasp on this present Kingdom.
Look, there may be those out there who wish to escape persecution through the rapture and are fearful of it. But that is a non-sequiter. It is irrelevant to the truth or falsehood of the doctrine. Emotions don't prove or disprove doctrine. I have an in-law who is "pre-wrath" who gets on me whenever we get together, saying that we must be ready for the tribulation. But if someone is walking with God right now, he is already ready.
Personally, I would welcome persecution, and that is what we teach our students. Christ promised great reward to those who suffer persecution (Matthew 5:10-12). If a person is walking with the Lord, filled with the Spirit, and in victory spiritually, then persecution can be faced with God's power and joy. There are Christians all over the globe who are premillennialists and are facing persecution, but they do it with victory.
Very harsh. Why am I a Pharisee for being premillennial? Pharisees were lost sinners, and they were legalists, thinking their obedience to the Law would get them saved. I am neither lost nor a legalist.
Again, virtually all believers in the first 3 centuries of Christianity were premillennial. So were there no godly Christians until Augustine? Really?
in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth -- the good news of your salvation -- in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise, which is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1:13,14
The HS guaranties an inheritance. An inheritance of what? A, body, by which you can inherit the kingdom of God.
A, body, a house from heaven, incorruptible. 2 Cor 5:1-4 Is speaking of a body fit for a kingdom, the kingdom of God.
Verse 5 And He who did work us to this self-same thing is God, who also did give to us the earnest of the Spirit;
Earnest of our inheritance.
The soulish man, in body, must be rebirthed an a spiritual man, in body, in order to see, enter and inherit the kingdom of God.
This will take place at the coming of the Lord either by resurrection or instant change.
And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow me, in the regeneration, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of his glory, shall sit -- ye also -- upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel; Matt 19:28
1 Peter 3:18 because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,--- It was Christ, in body, who died. It was Christ, in body, who was made alive.
Rom 8:11 and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. ----- When?
The man, in body, has to be fit for the kingdom of God.
The, stone, of Daniel 2:45 / the kingdom of God, Dan 7:18 have not taken place to date.
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
It is still being preached, as a witness, Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
From Rule by sons of men to by rule by sons of God.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. ---- Does anyone doubt that will be when Daniel 7:18 takes place.
The HS guaranties an inheritance. An inheritance of what? A, body, by which you can inherit the kingdom of God.
A, body, a house from heaven, incorruptible. 2 Cor 5:1-4 Is speaking of a body fit for a kingdom, the kingdom of God.
Verse 5 And He who did work us to this self-same thing is God, who also did give to us the earnest of the Spirit;
Earnest of our inheritance.
The soulish man, in body, must be rebirthed an a spiritual man, in body, in order to see, enter and inherit the kingdom of God.
This will take place at the coming of the Lord either by resurrection or instant change.
And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow me, in the regeneration, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of his glory, shall sit -- ye also -- upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel; Matt 19:28
1 Peter 3:18 because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,--- It was Christ, in body, who died. It was Christ, in body, who was made alive.
Rom 8:11 and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. ----- When?
The man, in body, has to be fit for the kingdom of God.
The, stone, of Daniel 2:45 / the kingdom of God, Dan 7:18 have not taken place to date.
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
It is still being preached, as a witness, Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
From Rule by sons of men to by rule by sons of God.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. ---- Does anyone doubt that will be when Daniel 7:18 takes place.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
True, but the gospel of the kingdom is a geo-political gospel of Israel as head of nations under the Son of God sitting on the throne of David and ruling literally and militarily over the nations.
True but that kingdom is the spiritual aspect of the kingdom entered by grace through faith.
The gospel of the kingdom in the gospels and the gospel of Paul are not the same gospel.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus taught the kingdom as spiritual only the born again can see. If you believe it is a future physical kingdom on earth, you renounce his gospel and side with the Pharisees who created Premilennialisam. Jesus blinded them so they could not understand the gospel and it is obvious it was through their literal interpretations of spiritual themes.
They are both valid viewpoints, as the Lord left this as a grey area in theology!
What about those of us who are CT premil? Historical premil? All lumped as heretics?
The Kingdom is BOTH spiritual and physical!
Still harsh. And you are not answering my questions. Were all of the Christians of the first three centuries then Pharisees for being premillennialists? Again, why am I a Pharisee (lost, legalistic) for simply believing in a premillennial return of Christ. You must have a reason. In what way am I a legalist?
Also, you don't even understand the premillennial position. In premillennialism, the millennial kingdom is not the same as the "kingdom of God," but is based on the Davidic Covenant. Jesus will sit on the throne of David on Earth, as per the promises to David. If you don't understand this, you don't comprehend premillennialism and thus should not post about it. You don't add to your stature by ignorance of a position you oppose.
Again, apparently you do not understand what the Gospel is. Paul laid it out clearly in 1 Corinthians 15:2-8, and one can be amil, postmil, or premil, any of these positions, and still believe the Gospel and be born again. I believe almost all the Baptists here on the BB would agree with me on this.
Yes, as the only position that one should not be holding would be full blown Preterist!
Precisely.
And also those other heresies called Dominion, Kingdom Now, and latter day rain Manifest sons of God!
I know you think that "all" Christians between Christ and the 2nd Century were premillennialist's. Show us all documents from that era and show how these saints all were premillennialist's. You are speaking from a couple documents and expressing that all saints believed Jesus would come back and reign for 1000 years, then walk away and let the earth go to hell for a time period before coming back yet again.
When we read the Bible we see all the saints being admonished to look for Jesus return. The Apostles never say, "By the way, it will only be for 1000 years and then Jesus will leave yet again."
What we see is that Jesus returns. He judges the earth with fire and then He reigns forever with His people.
So, the onus of proof is on you.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
They were mostly deceived by physical kingdom beliefs, just like today. Even the disciples didn't understand until later. But Peter preached the Amillennial position at Pentecost and Paul preached the same.
I disagree. The early church was pre-mil, although not how we may consider pre-mil, and believed they were living through the "tribulation", yet they held a very strong and biblical view of the kingdom. They may not have been correct, or they may have, in terms of the millennium, but their eschatological understanding did not have the effect on their understanding of the kingdom one may assume.
Or the kingdom is instead one "not of this world".
- Status