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He is the propitiation for our sins:

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, May 8, 2021.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    1 Jn 2:1-2

    My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    2 And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


    Who is the He here in Vs 2 and how is He the propitiation for our sins ?

    The He here is found in Vs 1, Jesus Christ the righteous !

    Now its important that He's called Jesus Christ the Righteous

    First He's Righteous in and of Himself Acts 3:14;7:52, He's not like us who when we're born sinners, in and of ourselves, none is righteous Rom 3:10

    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

    This applies to all mankind by nature, elect and none elect.

    But in addition to Jesus Christ the righteous being righteous in and of Himself, He also is the righteousness of all them He died for, all for whom He represented. Paul writes that of God Christ was made unto all for whom He lived and died 1 Cor 1:30

    30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

    And included in His suretyship obedience for them He died, they are made righteous Rom 5:19

    9 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Jesus Christ the righteous isn't only individually righteous in and of Himself but is also the righteousness of all for whom He propitiated God for, or all for whom He lived and died.
     
    #1 Brightfame52, May 8, 2021
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  2. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Next someone will require us to call him Yeshua the righteous

    Get enough stupid people together we can call him Righteous Manuel.
     
    #2 utilyan, May 8, 2021
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  3. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Propitiation even for the sarcastic.
    Praise to our righteous God and Savior.
     
    #3 SGO, May 8, 2021
  4. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Propitiation even for grammatically challenged.
    Praise to our righteous God and Savior.
     
    #4 utilyan, May 8, 2021
  5. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Propitiation available for every person on the planet whatever their capability.

    And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Praise to our God and Savior of the sarcastic and the grammatically challenged.
     
    #5 SGO, May 8, 2021
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  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    He is the propitiation for our sins:


    Now the word propitiation equates to Justice satisfied; Gods wrath having been appeased by Jesus Christ the righteous, and not by ones act of believing or Faith, Christ's Blood propitiated God, and nothing else, lest we believe heresy. Therefore the whole world in 1 Jn 2:2


    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


    This whole world has been reconciled to God Heb 2:17


    17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.


    The word reconciliation here is the greek word hilaskomai


    hiláskomai (akin to 2434 /hilasmós, "propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin") – properly, to extend propitiation, showing mercy by satisfying (literally, propitiating) the wrath of God on sin; "to conciliate, appease, propitiate


    Its in the same family of words propitiation 1 Jn 2:2 is.

    And those God has promised to be merciful to their what ? Heb 8:12

    For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    The word merciful here is the word ἵλεως in the same family of words as above and means:

    (an adjective, used back in Attic Greek about appeasing divine wrath) – properly, propitious, describing God's covenant-mercy

    God has promised to be propitious to the sins, of His elect, based upon the blood and mediation of Christ the righteous Heb 8:6

    6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

    Now naturally men think that this New Covenant Promise of propitiation belongs to only ethnic jews, but thats wrong, and thats why there is the emphasis in 1 Jn 2:2 that it applies to the whole world, all ethnicities of Gods elect

    It also applies to all Gods sheep in all stages of world history.


    Now does it apply to sinners under Gods wrath ? Jn 3:36

    36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    No it doesnt, it cant, that would contradict what propitiation means:


    hiláskomai (akin to 2434 /hilasmós, "propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin")

    appeasing divine wrath

    Folk, Gods wrath isn't and cant be appeased for sinners His wrath abideth on !
     
    #6 Brightfame52, May 9, 2021
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Propitiation available ? Thats not scriptural. Its been accomplished, a done deal, God has been satisfied by Christs death, not made His wrath available to be satisfied !
     
    #7 Brightfame52, May 9, 2021
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  8. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    My error.

    He died for all but all do not come to Him.
     
    #8 SGO, May 9, 2021
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    More error !
     
    #9 Brightfame52, May 9, 2021
  10. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Here.
    Have some more "error":

    ...because we trust in the living God,
    who is the Saviour of all men,
    specially those that believe.
    1 Timothy 4:10

    And he is the propitiation for our sins:
    and not for ours only,
    but also for the sins of the whole world.
    1 John 2:2
     
    #10 SGO, May 9, 2021
  11. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    In Hebrew His name is ( transliterated into English ),"Yeshua", and He is the Righteous one.
    His name is also "Emmanuel / Immanuel", or "God is with us" ( Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23 )...

    And yes, you will be required to bow to Him and to acknowledge Him as your Lord whether you like it or not:

    " For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
    12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."     ( Romans 12:11-12 ).

    " Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
    10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
    11 and [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father."     ( Philippians 2:9-11 ).

    Every insult, every mocking comment, every belittle, every bit of withering scorn that we could possibly unload upon our fellow man, every "little" slam that comes off our keyboards, out of our mouths and out of our hearts...
    Will be called into account, utilyan.

    Not one little jab at anyone will escape His notice and judgment.
    It's all written down, utilyan:

    " And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." ( Revelation 20:14 ).

    Count on it happening.
     
    #11 Dave G, May 9, 2021
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Those verses are truth !
     
    #12 Brightfame52, May 9, 2021
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  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Woosh over your head.
     
    #13 utilyan, May 9, 2021
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    John 1

    48Nathanael *said to Him, “How do You know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.” 49Nathanael answered Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel!” 50Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe?

    No Jesus I believe because you zapped my brain with your Calvin Voodoo.
     
    #14 utilyan, May 9, 2021
  15. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    See my post # 11.

    Again, everything that comes off our keyboards will be called into account;
    Whether you think He sees it or not.
    Every little ridicule, we will answer for.

    If you have no fear of Him, then I pity you.
     
    #15 Dave G, May 9, 2021
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  16. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    From the grammatically challenged, shouldn't that be Calvinistic Voodoo?
    Or are you willing to lose your Arm in ian ism too?
     
    #16 SGO, May 9, 2021
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  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Calvin Voodoo sounds better.
     
    #17 utilyan, May 9, 2021
  18. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Well you can take that up with God for ordaining me to be fearless rather than a groveling coward who allow their own mother thrown in hell for God's glory.
     
    #18 utilyan, May 9, 2021
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. This reconciliation is on going. ". . . to make reconciliation . . . ." 2 Corinthians 5:18-20, ". . . And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. . . ." The Apostle Paul and Timoty to some of the Corinthians at the Corinthian chruch. But we who are saved are already reconciled to God.
     
    #19 37818, May 9, 2021
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    For the very same in 1 John 5:19, ". . . and the whole world lieth in wickedness."
     
    #20 37818, May 9, 2021
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