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Featured Fear or Peace?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by John of Japan, May 5, 2021.

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  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Well, this thread seems to wander far from the OP, which was admittedly vague. So go to it folks; post what ever you want to.

    I'll just make one more post (unless someone interacts with this). I believe fear is a perfectly legitimate tool for evangelistic efforts. The doctrine of Hell comes under eschatology in systematic theology. It and the doctrine of Heaven are called individual eschatology. Jude 1:23 says, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

    My wife was a lost, 20-year-old church attender, home from Bible college, when an evangelist preached on Hell and scared her to life. She went down front at the invitation, and though her pastor said, "But you've already been saved" (referring to a childhood event), she wept her way to the throne of God with her pastor's wife's help, and was saved. I'll be eternally grateful to the evangelist who preached on Hell.
     
    #21 John of Japan, May 10, 2021
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  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Millions of Evangelical Christians Want to Start World War III … to Speed Up the Second Coming

    Millions of Evangelical Christians Want to Start World War III … to Speed Up the Second Coming - Global Research
     
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I read most of the article and looked at the rest. First of all it has absolutely no source for the "millions" statement (or most of the other statements, such as the idiotic reference to President Bush). So, it's "fake news." Oh, and just to illustrate the "fake news" aspect, neither Pat Robertson nor Billy Graham were ever pastors of a "mega-church." But if you wish to believe junk like that, it's up to you.

    But even if it were true, the article has absolutely nothing to do with normative premillennial dispensationalism.
     
    #23 John of Japan, May 10, 2021
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  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Did you use this fear tactic in Japan? How many Japanese did you save by frightening them?
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It is in every church I've attended except one Reformed Church. It's primarily the Rapturists sects that infiltrated Evangelicalism.
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I did not save any Japanese whatsoever (Doctrines 101).
     
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  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I have no clue what you are trying to communicate here.
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Oh, it sounded as if you were advocating save them by scaring them:

     
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I returned for a visit to a GARBC Church I used to attend. And I thought they were guilty of child abuse by pumping fear of the future generated by Dispensationalism into their minds. Why not drop out of school and throw all to the wind if Jesus is to return like they said many times before based on their calculations?
     
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I preach the Gospel. Jesus saves, not me. This is basic doctrine.

    Do you believe the Gospel? Part of the Gospel is that there is punishment for sin, and that punishment is eternal, and it is Hell, a literal place of fiery judgement. Christ took the punishment for our sins on the cross, which means He suffered Hell for us. If the lost sinner does not believe in Christ, he or she will suffer eternal punishment in Hell.
     
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  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Are you trying to talk to me about your opinions? Or trying to debate about the Word of God? I'm really not seeing what you are up to here, but I am truly not interested in your subjective opinions.

    Do you believe there is a Hell of eternal judgement for those who do not believe in Christ? If there is a Hell, should not people fear it being in their future enough to get saved?
     
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  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Actually according to your doctrine the person saves themselves by making the right choice after the preacher delivers the right message.
     
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    What they are telling these kids is not true. And it leads them into fear which is the opposite of faith.
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Show me in the Bible where fear is never legitimate for a lost person.

    God says, "Fear me" in the Bible. Is that then wrong and unloving of God?
     
    #34 John of Japan, May 10, 2021
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  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You really should not make guesses about my doctrine. And please don't bear false witness about me. I said people don't save themselves, and I absolutely meant it. I don't believe in the straw man called "decisional regeneration."
     
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  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I grew up in an evangelical dispensational SB Church, I seriously doubt there would be much guessing.

    Please don't be such a crybaby, spare me the drama.

    Oh but the scripture is clear, people can save themselves:

    40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

    Right....
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Do you have an actual doctrinal purpose here, or do you only want to harass me? You're not really debating.
     
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    You're right. I'll leave it.

    FTR, I disagree with your take on Jude 1:23. The ones doing the saving are the ones that are to fear lest they be drawn into the same error of those they're trying to save. If you're trying to justify fear tactics in preaching that's the wrong passage to use.
     
  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    The Greek of the verse for "in fear" is ἐν φοβῳ (en fobo), which I believe is a dative of means, meaning it can be translated as "Save by means of fear." In other words, it is clearly the person being saved for who fear becomes a motive.
     
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "Save by means of fear" doesn't jibe with any of the translations I have.

    22 And on some have mercy, who are in doubt;
    23 and some save, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. ASV

    22 and to some be kind, judging thoroughly,
    23 and some in fear save ye, out of the fire snatching, hating even the coat from the flesh spotted. YLT

    More

    [add]

    NLT conveys my take on it:

    Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others, but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives.

    Peruse the linked passages, no where do I get 'save them by scaring them'.

     
    #40 kyredneck, May 10, 2021
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
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