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Fear or Peace?
- Thread starter John of Japan
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saved/rescued/delivered..... from what? The eternal flame? No. From the wrath soon to come upon that wicked generation that killed Christ and persecuted His Church, that generation on whom all the righteous blood shed on the earth would come.
"Save yourselves from this crooked generation."
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: for her sins have reached even unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Fear, based on false prophecy is child abuse and I've seen it in these rapturist's circles.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/raptureanxiety?lang=en
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People who are headed for fire are the fearful ones.
That's a paraphrase, not a translation.
Since that doesn't convince you, try the words of Jesus, then: "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matt. 10:28). If Jesus hasn't convinced you, nothing I say will.
I asked you to show me from the Bible, not "twitter." (I stay away from there anyway. It's a ridiculous thing.)
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
I'm proving what I say about child abuse by the rapture cult is true.
Wow, that gave me a big laugh. Thanks.
So you simply give your opinion and think it proves something, and you call anyone who believes in the Rapture a cult, and you say that telling kids about God's judgement is child abuse, and you never give any Scripture to back up your views. Singularly unimpressive.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
It's based on experience. And documented by those who were mentally abused by the rapture doctrines.Wow, that gave me a big laugh. Thanks.
So you simply give your opinion and think it proves something, and you call anyone who believes in the Rapture a cult, and you say that telling kids about God's judgement is child abuse, and you never give any Scripture to back up your views. Singularly unimpressive.
Baloney. Here on the Baptist Board we debate Scripture. You apparently can't do that. I don't debate "Twitter," which I find to be utterly ridiculous--nothing but opinions of anyone who wants an account--and then they limit his or her words. How do you prove anything from Twitter????
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
But you will know them by their fruits. Sound theology sets people free. I've proven how the rapture doctrine abuses children.Baloney. Here on the Baptist Board we debate Scripture. You apparently can't do that. I don't debate "Twitter," which I find to be utterly ridiculous--nothing but opinions of anyone who wants an account--and then they limit his or her words. How do you prove anything from Twitter????
At last! Scripture! So you really do believe in it.
Here is the passage from Matthew 7:
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"
This passage strictly refers to false prophets, no one else. So, are you saying that because I believe in and teach the Rapture--which is based squarely on a literal interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and other passages--are you saying that I am a false prophet? Were my father and grandfather false prophets because they taught and preached the Rapture?
Personally, I'm very thankful that my pastor father taught the Rapture to me as I grew up. I found great comfort in the doctrine and little fear. I teach and preach it with joy. My Jesus is coming back! Awesome! He is going to take us all to Heaven to be with Him. Wonderful!
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Regardless, it 'paraphrased' exactly what I think it means, and none of the translations convey the meaning you apply, 'save by fear'.
New International Version
save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear--hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
New Living Translation
Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others, but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives.
English Standard Version
save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.
Berean Study Bible
save others by snatching them from the fire; and to still others show mercy tempered with fear, hating even the clothing stained by the flesh.
Berean Literal Bible
and save others, snatching them out of the fire; and show mercy to others with fear, hating even the clothing having been stained by the flesh.
King James Bible
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
New King James Version
but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
New American Standard Bible
save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.
NASB 1995
save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.
NASB 1977
save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.
Amplified Bible
save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom.
Christian Standard Bible
save others by snatching them from the fire; have mercy on others but with fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
save others by snatching them from the fire; have mercy on others but with fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
American Standard Version
and some save, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And when they repent, show pity upon them with respect, while you hate also the tunic that is defiled by the flesh.
Contemporary English Version
Rescue any who need to be saved, as you would rescue someone from a fire. Then with fear in your own hearts, have mercy on everyone who needs it. But hate even the clothes of those who have been made dirty by their filthy deeds.
Douay-Rheims Bible
But others save, pulling them out of the fire. And on others have mercy, in fear, hating also the spotted garment which is carnal.
English Revised Version
and some save, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Good News Translation
save others by snatching them out of the fire; and to others show mercy mixed with fear, but hate their very clothes, stained by their sinful lusts.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Save others by snatching them from the fire [of hell]. Show mercy to others, even though you are afraid that you might be stained by their sinful lives.
International Standard Version
Save others by snatching them from the fire. To others, show mercy with fear, hating even the clothes stained by their sinful lives.
Literal Standard Version
and rescue others by snatching [them] out of fire; but show mercy to others in fear, hating even the coat having been stained from the flesh.
NET Bible
save others by snatching them out of the fire; have mercy on others, coupled with a fear of God, hating even the clothes stained by the flesh.
New Heart English Bible
and some save, snatching them out of the fire, and on some have mercy with fear; hating even the clothing stained by the flesh.
Weymouth New Testament
others you must try to save, as brands plucked from the flames; and on others look with pity mingled with fear, while you hate every trace of their sin.
World English Bible
and some save, snatching them out of the fire with fear, hating even the clothing stained by the flesh.
Young's Literal Translation
and some in fear save ye, out of the fire snatching, hating even the coat from the flesh spotted.
More Translations
Big deal. My version is the JoJV. I am rarely impressed by long lists of verses. And you threw the kitchen sink in, too: paraphrases, versions by liberals, the Catholic Bible. I think you left out the New World Bible, though.
But your list proves nothing. The phrase "with fear" can mean "by means of" in English. For example, if someone asks, "How did you cut down that tree, with an ax or a saw?" they are asking the means by which the deed was done. And almost all of your versions use "with."
Regardless, my translation is entirely possible from the Greek.
But seriously, what do you make of what Jesus said in Matt. 7, "15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"
Was Jesus fear-mongering?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You will know the false prophets by their fruits. Craving WWIII thinking it will speed Jesus' return is not what Jesus teaches. Psychologically damaged kids from Dispy rapture teachings also reveal how false the teaching is.
Yeah, but see, I don't crave WW3 and I know no one who does. You are barking up the wrong tree. I think you are attributing wrong motives to people. I can't imagine anyone wishing for WW3 simply because it is prophesied to happen in the Tribulation.
But even if someone does teach that, you are trivializing actual child abuse by so shallow a statement: beating children, speaking abusive words ("You can't do anything right"), torturing them, sexually abusing them--these are real child abuse, not mistaken teaching about prophecy.
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"FTR, I disagree with your take on Jude 1:23. The ones doing the saving are the ones that are to fear lest they be drawn into the same error of those they're trying to save. If you're trying to justify fear tactics in preaching that's the wrong passage to use."
"FTR, I disagree with your take on Jude 1:23. The ones doing the saving are the ones that are to fear lest they be drawn into the same error of those they're trying to save. If you're trying to justify fear tactics in preaching that's the wrong passage to use."
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
It's documented and I've seen the mindset of those who think the State of Israel is Biblical Israel. They will stop at nothing to defend them.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Most who have been deceived into thinking the State of Israel is Biblical Israel, have a blood lust to defend them. Even though they exist only because of their hatred of Christ. Real Israel accepted him and remains as Biblical Israel. The damaged rapture kids have a support group trying to recover from the damaging effects of that teaching.
37818
Well-Known Member
1 Peter 2:17, ". . . Love the brotherhood. Fear God. . . ." θεον φοβεισθε
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