1 John 2:2

[Van]

In a recently closed thread, a poster noted many English translations have added words to the inspired text.

Here is how the NIV renders the verse:
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

However, some English translations provide an accurate rendering:

Here is how the ASV renders the verse:
1 John 2:2
and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

Thus the addition should be in italics, but the addition does not seem to alter the message.

Several translations use "atoning sacrifice" instead of "propitiation" but both choices use words which are outside the vocabulary of the lost readers. A much better translation would be "means of salvation."

 

[Van]

Here are some of the alternate translation choices found among our English translations:

CEB
He is God’s way of dealing with our sins, not only ours but the sins of the whole world.

CEV
Christ is the sacrifice that takes away our sins and the sins of all the world’s people.

DLNT
And He Himself is the satisfaction for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world’s.

ERV
Jesus is the way our sins are taken away. And he is the way all people can have their sins taken away too.

GNV
And he is the reconciliation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

GW
He is the payment for our sins, and not only for our sins, but also for the sins of the whole world.

GNT
And Christ himself is the means by which our sins are forgiven, and not our sins only, but also the sins of everyone.

ICB
Jesus died in our place to take away our sins. And Jesus is the way that all people can have their sins taken away, too.

TLB
He is the one who took God’s wrath against our sins upon himself and brought us into fellowship with God; and he is the forgiveness for our sins, and not only ours but all the world’s.

NABRE
He is expiation for our sins, and not for our sins only but for those of the whole world.

NCV
He died in our place to take away our sins, and not only our sins but the sins of all people.

NLV
He paid for our sins with His own blood. He did not pay for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world.

WE
He himself is the sacrifice God offered to pay for the wrong we have done. And he pays for the wrong things all people in all the world have done.

And, in my opinion, none offer translation of the inspired text as accurately as:

1 John 2:2
and he is the means of salvation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole of humanity.

 

[Van]

Ratings are subject to moderation (warnings) when it is deemed by the staff that they are inappropriate, flaming, or being used as an insult. Ratings are not a “back door” way of insulting people.

The poster who rated the above post "funny" uses the rating as a "back door" way of insulting people, in my opinion.

 

[Van]

Trusting in the substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus as the means of salvation from the consequence imposed by God for their sins is what God requires of the lost. However, it is God alone who decides whether to credit our faith as righteousness or not, thus salvation does not depend upon the person who wills to be saved. Faith is not works because faith is in accordance with grace.

 

[Dave G]

Here it is in the Greek:
1 John 2:2 Greek biblehub.

In my opinion,
translations like the AV have added the words in brackets, " and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world." for continuity in the English language, and not because the text itself warrants it.

Other translations in English simply added it to the text itself with no apparent reason for doing so,
since the Greek does not support it:
" He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." ( 1 John 2:2, NIV ).

While still others did not:
" And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." ( 1 John 2:2, NKJV )

1 John 2:2
and he is the means of salvation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole of humanity.

Your understanding of the verse ( all by itself and without the benefit of the rest of God's word applied to it ) aside,
the Greek in no way says "the whole of humanity", Van.

The Greek says "κόσμου", which means "world"...
Not "humanity" or "all of mankind" or even the Greek words for "all men".

But I can see how you might think that it says it this way,
as I once saw it this way as well.

 

[Dave G]

However, it is God alone who decides whether to credit our faith as righteousness or not, thus salvation does not depend upon the person who wills to be saved.

Perhaps explaining how,

on the one hand that God credits a person's individual faith as righteousness,
and on the other hand that salvation does not depend upon the person who wills to be saved ( Romans 9:16, John 1:13 )...
is not in any way contradictory,

would address the questions of those who would have them.

Faith is not works because faith is in accordance with grace.

I agree sir.

Faith is not works, because it rests in Christ's work for us as believers,
and not our own works of righteousness ( Romans 5:12-21, Titus 3:5-7 ).

 

[Martin Marprelate]

And, in my opinion, none offer translation of the inspired text as accurately as:

1 John 2:2
and he is the means of salvation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole of humanity.

OK, let's see how that works with another verse in 1 John.
1 John 2:15. 'Do not love humanity or the things of humanity. If anyone loves humanity, the love of the Father is not in him.'
Hmmm. Maybe not.

 

[Dave G]

OK, let's see how that works with another verse in 1 John.
1 John 2:15. 'Do not love humanity or the things of humanity. If anyone loves humanity, the love of the Father is not in him.'
Hmmm. Maybe not.

I've another for consideration:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." ( John 3:14-21 ).

What is the context of "the world" ( " κόσμου" ) here?
It has several definitions and can be understood several ways, can it not?

How about "κόσμου" in verse 16 being defined by "whosoever believeth in Him" from verses 15 and 16,
While in verse 17 the first "κόσμου" means "this present world, planet earth", while the second "κόσμου" means " all mankind", and the third "κόσμου" is defined by the "he that believeth on Him" in verse 18?
In verse 19, I see that "the world" is defined as "this present world, planet earth".

But I can see how many would disagree with my own understanding of it.
For example,
I once thought that God loved everyone, and then I saw this:

" The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man." ( Psalms 5:5-6 ).

" The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." ( Psalms 11:5 )

 

[Dave G]

And, in my opinion, none offer translation of the inspired text as accurately as:

1 John 2:2
and he is the means of salvation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole of humanity.

Perhaps rendering it into English as closely and accurately to the Greek, would be better Van.
For example,
I know of several who have taken Acts of the Apostles 13:48 and outright stated that, in their opinion, it should have been translated as:

" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as believed were ordained to eternal life."

 

[Martin Marprelate]

15 that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

If you take these verses together, it becomes evident that 'whosoever believeth' is a synonym for 'the world.'
God sent His Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish. He also gave Him that the world through Him might be saved. Therefore 'world' here means believers 'of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues' (Revelation 7:9).

 

[Van]

I see two Calvinists have been busy posting twaddle.

First they deny John uses "kosmos: to refer to humanity or the corrupt value system of humanity. But this is from a lexicon: the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family.

Second they mistranslate another verse and imply that is how I would translate it inaccurately.

Third it is claimed John 3:16 does not refer to fallen humanity, as if God did not send His Son to redeem the lost.

Fourth, one of them introduces another verse, running away from 1 John 2:2.

I expect they will twaddle one using deceit and deflection to hide the truth of 1 John 2:2: and he is the means of salvation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole of humanity.

 

[Van]

I see I missed a valid question: If salvation does not depend upon the persons who will to be saved and thus put their faith in Christ, why does it depend on God crediting the person's faith as righteousness? Answer: Salvation depends on the person who calls (God Almighty) who both tells us it is our job to believe in the One He sent, and then credits (or not) our worthless dirty rag faith as righteousness according to His will. A person could will to be saved and put their faith in Christ, but not be saved because God chose to not credit their faith as righteousness. For example, see the second and third soils of Matthew 13.

 

[Dave G]

I see two Calvinists have been busy posting twaddle.

Van,

Firstly, I am not a "Calvinist".
I picked up the Bible one day in 2003, followed the Lord's commands stated in 1 Peter 2:2 and 2 Timothy 2:15,
and what you see is my own private understanding of the Scriptures after long study in them over that time period.

I was never raised in the "Reformd tradition", I do not adhere to creeds and confessions, nor do I see any long-lasting value in commentaries.

Finally,
I do not, nor ever will follow John Calvin's teachings without questioning them at length and taking it all back to God's word.


Secondly, if you wish to insult people by characterizing their remarks as "twaddle",
then that is your prerogative to do so.

 

[Conan]

Here it is in the Greek:
1 John 2:2 Greek biblehub.

In my opinion,
translations like the AV have added the words in brackets, " and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world." for continuity in the English language, and not because the text itself warrants it.

Is it so in the 1611 original King James Version or were the brackets introduced in a later edition?

 

[rlvaughn]

Is it so in the 1611 original King James Version or were the brackets introduced in a later edition?

I think Dave may mean that he is putting it in brackets. I've have never seen a KJV that had text in brackets. (Not sure. There are lots of things I have never seen, so that fact does not mean there are none that do so.) Some printings have the sins of in italic print. You can view the Barker 1611 printing here (which does not have italics or brackets).
I John in The Holy Bible, Conteyning the Old Testament and the New, Imprinted at London by Robert Barker, 1611

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Is it so in the 1611 original King James Version or were the brackets introduced in a later edition?

I believe that they were in the original 1611 edition, but they are not in brackets, but in italics as they are in the KJV today to show that they are not in the original Greek text.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I see @Van has been busy posting twaddle.
First he suggests that I do not believe that Kosmos ever refers to humanity. I do no such thing. I just doesn't mean that in 1 John 2:2, as I have shown above. Kosmos has about eight different meanings in Scripture; the context will show which is correct.
Secondly he correctly claims that I mistranslated 1 John 2:15, but does not have the wit to understand why I did it.
Thirdly, I showed why John 3:16 does not refer to 'fallen humanity, and I note that @Van was not able to refute my analysis.
Fourthly, no one is running away from 1 John 2:2 except @Van who invariably resorts to abuse when he can't answer arguments, but squeals like a stuck pig when someone doeas the same to him.
Fifthly, @Van does not know what 'propitiation' means; specifically that it does not mean 'means of salvation.'
1 John 2:2. 'And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.' Now if Christ is the propitiation for the sins of fallen humanity, then God is propitiated towards fallen humanity, their sins are forgiven, hell is empty and there will be no condemnation for anyone. But the Bible declares that not to be the case.

So what does the text mean?

We first note that kosmos can and does often mean 'the physical world' (eg. Acts 17:24); secondly, the world, being inanimate, cannot sin. But it is nonetheless under a curse because of sin (Genesis 3:17; 5:29) along with sinful mankind (Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10). Romans 8:20ff tells us that the creation is subject to futility - random events and disasters - and subject to decay (cf. Isaiah 51:6), but that God subjected it to this 'in hope.' What hope? The hope of 1 John 2:2. Not only is Christ the propitiation for our sins, but for the whole earth. In the new heavens and new earth, 'there shall be no more curse' (Revelation 22:3). Just as Christ's people will no longer be under a curse, but have new perfect resurrection bodies, so the world itself will be free of its curse, because Christ is the propitiation not only for our sins but for the whole world.

I don't say that this is the only possible understanding of 1 John 2:2, but I do say that @Van's exposition is not possible.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I think Dave may mean that he is putting it in brackets. I've have never seen a KJV that had text in brackets. (Not sure. There are lots of things I have never seen, so that fact does not mean there are none that do so.) Some printings have the sins of in italic print. You can view the Barker 1611 printing here (which does not have italics or brackets).
I John in The Holy Bible, Conteyning the Old Testament and the New, Imprinted at London by Robert Barker, 1611

Ah! I stand corrected then. Sorry! Italics were not in the 1611 KJV. They are in every KJV that I have seen, but I cannot say when they were first introduced.

 

[Dave G]

First they deny John uses "kosmos: to refer to humanity or the corrupt value system of humanity. But this is from a lexicon: the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family.

I do not deny it.

I simply disagree with your translation of it,
and see no need for you to translate it in any other way than what was performed in Bibles like the AV, for example.

Second they mistranslate another verse and imply that is how I would translate it inaccurately.

What I'm doing is presenting my own opinion,
and giving you the details so that you know why.

If you wish to characterize it in another fashion, then that is your prerogative.

Third it is claimed John 3:16 does not refer to fallen humanity, as if God did not send His Son to redeem the lost.

Read it in context Van.
If you don't see it the way I do, then we can agree to disagree.

 

[Dave G]

Fourth, one of them introduces another verse, running away from 1 John 2:2.

Respectfully,
Scripture defining and giving understanding to the other parts of God's word,
is not "running away" from 1 John 2:2.
It is confronting it, squarely, instead of treating it as if it's all by itself in a vacuum.

The truth is,
no part of God's word stands alone and all by itself with respect to any other part of it ( Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 ).

Therefore,
I see no reason to shy away from discussing other parts of Scripture in order to better define what one "verse" seems to say.

I expect they will twaddle one using deceit and deflection to hide the truth of 1 John 2:2: and he is the means of salvation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole of humanity.

Personally,
I expect you to honor the Lord's commands regarding Christian conduct, which is our reasonable service as believers.

However, if you wish to characterize the responses of those who disagree with you as "twaddle",
then I understand that you don't really care about this:

" Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."