Featured Please Provide Input on Revelation 12:4

You made a mistake in the first sentence. The two-edged sword has nothing to do with prophecy. Just check the context.

 

Those convinced that the modern preterist movement is viable are only certain of one thing and that one thing is those individuals who take a literal interpretation of the actual words of the Bible are wrong.

 

Probably not. You look like you are coming out swinging. I am not interested in mere arguing.

 

@George Antonios :
I realize that I'm not the targeted audience,
but I'd like to contribute a few things that I've come to understand in my studies using the passage that you listed in Revelation 12:


1) In Revelation 12:1-2, the "woman" is the very same woman as described in the rest of the passage.
She is the bride of Christ.
The crowns upon her head are the 12 apostles, whose names are in the 12 foundations that make up the New Jerusalem ( Revelation 21:14 ).

2) In Revelation 12:3, the great dragon ( which we are told is Satan in Revelation 12:9 ) has 7 "heads" and ten "horns"...
the same as the "beast" found in Revelation 13:1-2 to whom the dragon gave his power.

3) In Revelation 12:4, Mary, who is one of God's children, had Satan "stand before her" in the person of Herod, with the intent of killing the Lord Jesus when he sent out his soldiers to Bethlehem and killed all male children 2 years and under ( Matthew 2:16 ).
This was foretold in Jeremiah 31:15.

That same dragon, whose "tail" gathered to himself 1/3 of the stars of Heaven ( a third of the angels fell to earth as Revelation 12:9 states ),
is still the god of this world who blinds men to the truth of the Gospel ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ).

4) In Revelation 12:5, Mary has brought forth a man-child ( the Lord Jesus Christ ) who is to rule the nations with a rod of iron;
This same Jesus was caught up to God's throne and makes intercession for His people to this day.

5) In Revelation 12:6, the "woman" ( the bride of Christ ) flees into the wilderness and will be fed there for 1,260 days...
roughly 3.5 years or 42 months, which is the extent of the "Great Tribulation" ( Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15-21, Mark 13:14-23 ).

6) Revelation 12:7-8 has already taken place...
God cast out the devil and his angels, and this was stated as already having taken place in Isaiah 14:12:
" How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

The Lord Jesus Himself was witness to this in Luke 10:18,
Where He said:
" And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.".



Finally, I see the "stamping" that the goat does in Daniel 8 as being prophetic imagery for what is going to happen ( after Daniel's time ) after the Babylonian / Chaldean Empire ( and then Persian Empire, the two "horns" being symbolic of the Medes and Persians ) falls to the Greeks,
Which then fragment into the blocs of power ( Diadochi ) after Alexander dies ( the great horn being broken in Daniel 8:8 ).

In other words, the "stamping" could not have taken place at Christ's birth,
because both events ( the casting out of those angels which followed Satan, and the fall of the Greek Empire ) had already taken place by the time of the Lord's birth...

When the Roman Empire was just beginning to come to it's height.

 

I say this in all sincerity, consider digging deeper my friend.

 

Well, OK. We need to back up a bit. The woman in this vision is the Jewish-Christian church, not Mary and not the Bride of Christ. The identification is helped by those twelve stars.

So, the time is not around the birth of Christ. The details following do not fit with such an interpretation. Mary was never chased by the Devil into the wilderness.

And the child cannot be Jesus. He was not "caught up" (the word used elsewhere for rapture) to Heaven.

I need to take care of other things now. Will get more into this later.

 

George, I tried to be as respectful as possible, but since it seems to offend I'm sorry. You are correct in the larger sense, we should get our theology from the Bible.

 

Here is something I wrote a number of years ago. I realise that people rarely look at links, but it's a bit long to paste the whole thing.
Revelation (8). Chapter 12: The Woman & The Dragon

 

@George Antonios explain why Daniel 8 and Revelation 12 have to be discussing the same thing. You make this assumption without providing any evidentiary support. Please explain how you see them as one and the same event.

 

'Now, I know some of you more enlightened brethren have already entered the millennial kingdom, and like your Corinthian forebears have reigned as kings without us (1Co.4:8)

I will conclude the verse......."and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you." Can we join in please?

Epic! Well said.

 

'The woman in this vision is the Jewish-Christian church, not Mary and not the Bride of Christ. And the child cannot be Jesus. He was not "caught up" (the word used elsewhere for rapture) to Heaven.'

I agree. The Bride of Christ is 'caught up' and comes forth from within the woman (Church), a remnant if you will.

 

OK. The quick answer: The one third of the stars was one third of the Jews died in the war. Josephus put the number at 1.1 million. That works out to roughly one third of the population of Judea. Estimates by historians range from 1 to 5 million. Assuming the mean is closest, that would fit. Although, this being a book full of symbols, including numerical, it could be the the "third" might not be literal. See the other occurrences of "third" in these chapters.

 

I agree.

The he-goat that came from the west in Daniel 8:7 and stamped the ram ( Persia ) was Alexander...
who afterwards died and his empire was broken into 4 pieces.

I see that the little horn in Daniel 8:7( Philip of Macedon ) becomes large...Alexander.

The he-goat that waxed great ( Greece ) when he was strong ( Greece under Alexander ),
then stamps upon and breaks the great horn of the ram ( Persia ) in Daniel 8:7-8.

Then we come to Daniel 8:9...
Out of the one of the 4 pieces comes a "little horn"...Rome.
The Antigonid Dynasty under Perseus of Macedon ( one of the 4 "notable ones in Daniel 8:8 and the western-most of them ) was unable to stop the advancing Roman armies in 168 B.C.
But the Attalid Dynasty ( also of the 4 "notable ones" in Daniel 8:8 ) was allied with Rome and supported them in their conquests.

In Daniel 8:10, this same "little horn" that originates from the 4 notable ones and becomes great ( the Romans Empire ), is associated with Satan...
Who "casts down" and "stamps upon" a third of the host by convincing them to follow him.

Satan "magnifies" himself, even to the prince of the entire host ( the Lord God ),
when he declares that he will be like the Most High;
and by Satan's servant ( the "beast or Anti_Christ ) shall the daily sacrifice will be taken away ( see Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15-21 ).

The explanation for some of what I see is found in Daniel 8:20-25.