A Warning to Southern Baptists Against Diluting or Adding to the Gospel, Part

[Baptist Believer]

You claimed no one is saying all whites are racist.

Nope. This is what I wrote:

I have certainly said nothing of the sort, nor have I heard any credible person say that.​

Please do not misquote me.

In my circles, and in my study, I have never heard any credible person who has made that claim, especially in the personal sense (not systematic racism) that Yeshua1 has taken it. That still holds.

Confronted with a prime example you correctly refer to it as garbage, yet don’t admit your own error.

Because I didn't make an error in two senses (1) I have not heard it -- not that it doesn't exist; and (2) from a credible source.

And did you notice that I 'liked' rlvaughn bringing it to my attention? Probably not. You were looking for an accusation.

There are a great many people spouting such garbage saying all whites are racist.

There are a great deal of neo-Nazis online, does that mean they speak for the majority of white people? Of course not. Do you not know how to judge sources and credibility? Perhaps not.

Your attempts at gaslighting won’t work, except to make you look like you are trying to cover up the truth for whatever reason.

You are projecting your own fears upon me. Please get yourself together.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Nope. This is what I wrote:

I have certainly said nothing of the sort, nor have I heard any credible person say that.

Please do not misquote me.

In my circles, and in my study, I have never heard any credible person who has made that claim, especially in the personal sense (not systematic racism) that Yeshua1 has taken it. That still holds.

Because I didn't make an error in two senses (1) I have not heard it -- not that it doesn't exist; and (2) from a credible source.

And did you notice that I 'liked' rlvaughn bringing it to my attention? Probably not. You were looking for an accusation.

There are a great deal of neo-Nazis online, does that mean they speak for the majority of white people? Of course not. Do you not know how to judge sources and credibility? Perhaps not.

You are projecting your own fears upon me. Please get yourself together.

Your extreme condescension and arrogance are all that come through with that sort of post.

How did you discredit the source? With circular reasoning. You seem to want to entangle Christians in just the sort of garbage she and a host of others are spouting, because that is just the sort of garbage coming out of BLM. It is what is behind the “Black Lives Matter” slogan. Your gaslighting won’t work on someone who has witnessed this nonsense affecting Christians firsthand.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Your extreme condescension and arrogance are all that come through with that sort of post.

Ah yes, I'm 'guilty' of "condescension and arrogance" when I call you out on your mischaracterization of what I write. That's simply an ad homenin argument to deflect.

How did you discredit the source?

Learning to analyze the credibility of sources is an important first step in critical thinking. When you read something, you need to ask, 'Does this person have any special training, position or perception that warrants taking this more seriously than any other blog site?' Also, 'Is this person a recognized thought leader or influencer that is widely cited by others?' Next, check the quality of other material in the blog/website. 'Do those other opinion/fact pieces demonstrate sobriety of mind and knowledge of the broader world?' Then look at the way the content is structured. Does it state a premise anywhere? What are the presuppositions? Are the foundational presuppositions supported by evidence of some sort? Is the writer knowledgeable about the history of this topic and understand the shades of meaning? Do they seem evenhanded and are trying to provide information, not just provoke an emotional response? Are they respectful of those with whom they disagree and are treating what they say fairly and completely? Can they acknowledge that those they oppose have any merit whatsoever to their claims, or even to the feelings that may motivate them? Do they show any sense of empathy toward those they oppose?

That's a starting place. Then you have to see if the argument itself has merit and is coherent from beginning to end.

With circular reasoning.

Nope.

You seem to want to entangle Christians in just the sort of garbage she and a host of others are spouting, because that is just the sort of garbage coming out of BLM.

I have nothing to do with BLM, nor have I advocated the BLM organization. The book I recommended also does not recommend the BLM organization.

It is what is behind the “Black Lives Matter” slogan. Your gaslighting won’t work on someone who has witnessed this nonsense affecting Christians firsthand.

It is not gaslighting, it is being a Jesus-inspired light of the world.

You demonstrate you are an "All sheep matter" kind of guy, which is opposed to the principle that Jesus was attempting to teach.

 

[Yeshua1]

That's an uncharitable way to introduce the topic of systematic racism. It's designed to provoke instead of help.

If you want to read and helpful discussion of systematic racism, then I recommend The Color of Compromise instead of garbage like that. The Color of Compromise comes from a Christian perspective and is well-reasoned and respectful of the reader.

Is there similar works about how blacks have many times be racist against own, in the past, and in the present times?
That the biggest promoter of black slavery during civil war times was not white America so called, but among Black muslims?

 

[Yeshua1]

Ah yes, I'm 'guilty' of "condescension and arrogance" when I call you out on your mischaracterization of what I write. That's simply an ad homenin argument to deflect.


Learning to analyze the credibility of sources is an important first step in critical thinking. When you read something, you need to ask, 'Does this person have any special training, position or perception that warrants taking this more seriously than any other blog site?' Also, 'Is this person a recognized thought leader or influencer that is widely cited by others?' Next, check the quality of other material in the blog/website. 'Do those other opinion/fact pieces demonstrate sobriety of mind and knowledge of the broader world?' Then look at the way the content is structured. Does it state a premise anywhere? What are the presuppositions? Are the foundational presuppositions supported by evidence of some sort? Is the writer knowledgeable about the history of this topic and understand the shades of meaning? Do they seem evenhanded and are trying to provide information, not just provoke an emotional response? Are they respectful of those with whom they disagree and are treating what they say fairly and completely? Can they acknowledge that those they oppose have any merit whatsoever to their claims, or even to the feelings that may motivate them? Do they show any sense of empathy toward those they oppose?

That's a starting place. Then you have to see if the argument itself has merit and is coherent from beginning to end.


Nope.


I have nothing to do with BLM, nor have I advocated the BLM organization. The book I recommended also does not recommend the BLM organization.


It is not gaslighting, it is being a Jesus-inspired light of the world.

You demonstrate you are an "All sheep matter" kind of guy, which is opposed to the principle that Jesus was attempting to teach.

Is it healthy to point out only Whites are guilty of "systematic racism". and yet the truth is that all humans havde been affected by racism?

 

[Baptist Believer]

Is there similar works about how blacks have many times be racist against own, in the past, and in the present times?

Our fundamental issue in communicating is that I have been talking about systemic racism, not personal ethnic prejudice/hatred.

Systemic racism is the way that a society is structured, according to socio-legal-economic lines, that puts certain people in inferior and/or disadvantaged positions because of ethnicity. It is not about individual people being prejudiced. It is about who holds power in society according to ethnic lines. A just society would have persons of all ethnicities holding power more or less at equal levels.

So black persons holding prejudice against persons of their own ethnicity (or any other ethnicity) is morally wrong, it is not systemic racism unless black persons hold significantly more power in a society along social-legal-economic lines. That doesn’t exist in the United States.

[/quote]That the biggest promoter of black slavery during civil war times was not white America so called, but among Black muslims?[/QUOTE]
Are you talking about Muslims in Africa? What’s the reference? Moreover, what does that have to do with systematic racism?

Is it healthy to point out only Whites are guilty of "systematic racism". and yet the truth is that all humans havde been affected by racism?

White persons are generally unconscious of systematic racism since it doesn’t affect them the way it does non-whites. Most white people are not afraid of being beaten by police at a traffic stop or have police officers use lethal force against them for significantly less provocation. The ancestors of most white people were not banned from obtaining mortgages, or settling in certain neighborhoods where property values rise. When I purchased my own home here in Fort Worth, there was a provision on the original deed to the property that forbade a “Negro” from staying overnight on the property unless that “Negro” was domestic help and stayed in a building detached from the main house. (The “main house” is a 1,300 SF ranch-style tract home built in 1947, not a mansion.) it was a standard provision in the entire neighborhood and for miles around, designed to keep black peoples segregated on one side of town with poorer drainage, poorer roads, and few stores and amenities.

So yes, all of us (including white people) are affected poorly by systematic racism, and personal ethnic bigotry. But I have ONLY been talking about systemic racism.

 

[Revmitchell]

You claimed no one is saying all whites are racist. Confronted with a prime example you correctly refer to it as garbage, yet don’t admit your own error. Yes, it is garbage. There are a great many people spouting such garbage saying all whites are racist. Your attempts at gaslighting won’t work, except to make you look like you are trying to cover up the truth for whatever reason.

White Brandeis University official says she hates 'whiteness' | Daily Mail Online

 

[Revmitchell]

You claimed no one is saying all whites are racist. Confronted with a prime example you correctly refer to it as garbage, yet don’t admit your own error. Yes, it is garbage. There are a great many people spouting such garbage saying all whites are racist. Your attempts at gaslighting won’t work, except to make you look like you are trying to cover up the truth for whatever reason.

Fir goodness sakes even black people are coming out against crt calling it racist and evil

 

[Yeshua1]

Our fundamental issue in communicating is that I have been talking about systemic racism, not personal ethnic prejudice/hatred.

Systemic racism is the way that a society is structured, according to socio-legal-economic lines, that puts certain people in inferior and/or disadvantaged positions because of ethnicity. It is not about individual people being prejudiced. It is about who holds power in society according to ethnic lines. A just society would have persons of all ethnicities holding power more or less at equal levels.

So black persons holding prejudice against persons of their own ethnicity (or any other ethnicity) is morally wrong, it is not systemic racism unless black persons hold significantly more power in a society along social-legal-economic lines. That doesn’t exist in the United States.

That the biggest promoter of black slavery during civil war times was not white America so called, but among Black muslims?[/QUOTE]
Are you talking about Muslims in Africa? What’s the reference? Moreover, what does that have to do with systematic racism?


White persons are generally unconscious of systematic racism since it doesn’t affect them the way it does non-whites. Most white people are not afraid of being beaten by police at a traffic stop or have police officers use lethal force against them for significantly less provocation. The ancestors of most white people were not banned from obtaining mortgages, or settling in certain neighborhoods where property values rise. When I purchased my own home here in Fort Worth, there was a provision on the original deed to the property that forbade a “Negro” from staying overnight on the property unless that “Negro” was domestic help and stayed in a building detached from the main house. (The “main house” is a 1,300 SF ranch-style tract home built in 1947, not a mansion.) it was a standard provision in the entire neighborhood and for miles around, designed to keep black peoples segregated on one side of town with poorer drainage, poorer roads, and few stores and amenities.

So yes, all of us (including white people) are affected poorly by systematic racism, and personal ethnic bigotry. But I have ONLY been talking about systemic racism.[/QUOTE]
There does though indeed now appear to be a systematic racism in some Blm and woke groups, especially as related to the Critical race theory being pushed as agenda, and do NOT see systematic racism among say Military nor Police, just see certain ingorant bigots and racists getting now exposed when caught!

 

[Baptist Believer]

There does though indeed now appear to be a systematic racism in some Blm and woke groups...

Your statement is nonsensical. It's quite clear you don't understand what we are discussing. Systemic racism (sometimes called institutional racism) is a form of racism that is embedded through laws and regulations within society. BLM has not created laws and regulations within society.

 

[Yeshua1]

Your statement is nonsensical. It's quite clear you don't understand what we are discussing. Systemic racism (sometimes called institutional racism) is a form of racism that is embedded through laws and regulations within society. BLM has not created laws and regulations within society.

Their very premise though is racist in nature!

 

[Baptist Believer]

Their very premise though is racist in nature!

The premise that systemic racism exists?

 

[Yeshua1]

The premise that systemic racism exists?

No, that white cops are practicing that as a policy, and that white Americans are all guilty of slavery!

 

[Baptist Believer]

No, that white cops are practicing that as a policy...

As a policy? I doubt many, if any, police departments in the United States have a written or verbal policy to exercise ethnic prejudice.

...and that white Americans are all guilty of slavery!

There are no white Americans (or any other kind of American) alive today who owned slaves before the 14th Amendment. That's NOT what systemic racism claims.

Please do me a favor and actually read a brief article on systemic racism because you continue to embarrass yourself. You need to know it is not just about descendants of slaves and black people in the United States. I'll make it easy and give you a link: Institutional Racism (aka Systemic Racism)

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

...I'll make it easy and give you a link: Institutional Racism (aka Systemic Racism)

That link doesn't seem to be complete.

 

[Yeshua1]

As a policy? I doubt many, if any, police departments in the United States have a written or verbal policy to exercise ethnic prejudice.


There are no white Americans (or any other kind of American) alive today who owned slaves before the 14th Amendment. That's NOT what systemic racism claims.

Please do me a favor and actually read a brief article on systemic racism because you continue to embarrass yourself. You need to know it is not just about descendants of slaves and black people in the United States. I'll make it easy and give you a link: Institutional Racism (aka Systemic Racism)

I have yet to see evidence that today we are overtly doing systematic racism among whites towards others!

 

[Baptist Believer]

That link doesn't seem to be complete.

My apologies. I'm not sure what went wrong, but this should work - Institutional Racism (aka Systemic Racism)

I have yet to see evidence that today we are overtly doing systematic racism among whites towards others!

You seem to think I am referring to active planning and meetings of all white people in the US. That's not at all what systemic racism is about. Check out the link and, especially, go down to the section on the United States.

 

[canadyjd]

….
A just society would have persons of all ethnicities holding power more or less at equal levels…...

No society will ever produce the “equality of outcomes” that you are calling for. No society will ever reach your definition of “just”. So the strife continues forever as our nation divides along racial lines.

Americans of African descent make up 13% (?) of the population, so 13% of all people “holding power” (whatever that means) must be of the same race or the society is unjust. The same for Hispanic, Asian, female, gay etc.

The obvious error of your “just” society is that a person of one race cannot represent the interest of a person of another race.

peace to you

 

[Baptist Believer]

No society will ever produce the “equality of outcomes” that you are calling for. No society will ever reach your definition of “just”.

So people won't be equal under the law in word and practice? In any case, Christians are to work for the good of their neighbors, so even we cannot fully get to where we should be, we can make a lot of progress.

So the strife continues forever as our nation divides along racial lines.

No, exactly the opposite.

Americans of African descent make up 13% (?) of the population, so 13% of all people “holding power” (whatever that means) must be of the same race or the society is unjust. The same for Hispanic, Asian, female, gay etc.

I'm talking about equal treatment in the courts, supermarkets in historically black neighborhoods, the ability of black families to build generational wealth through home ownership, etc.

The obvious error of your “just” society is that a person of one race cannot represent the interest of a person of another race.

While persons of another ethnicity can often do a decent job of representing the needs of persons of another ethnic of social group, no one from a majority ethnic group fully knows what a person of a historically disadvantaged ethnic group experiences, and may be unintentionally blind to the needs and interests of that ethnic group.

 

[Yeshua1]

So people won't be equal under the law in word and practice? In any case, Christians are to work for the good of their neighbors, so even we cannot fully get to where we should be, we can make a lot of progress.


No, exactly the opposite.


I'm talking about equal treatment in the courts, supermarkets in historically black neighborhoods, the ability of black families to build generational wealth through home ownership, etc.


While persons of another ethnicity can often do a decent job of representing the needs of persons of another ethnic of social group, no one from a majority ethnic group fully knows what a person of a historically disadvantaged ethnic group experiences, and may be unintentionally blind to the needs and interests of that ethnic group.

Isn;t the single most important God given right the one to be alive, so lets get rid of abortion on demand!