Featured Please Provide Input on Revelation 12:4

Wrong, George. 'The Woman' of Rev 12 is the heavenly Jerusalem, the same woman of Genesis 3:15; Psalms 87; Isaiah 54; Galatians 4:26, represented by her children in this temporal realm.

'The other woman' of Revelation, the earthly Jerusalem, is "the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified". "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth".

 

The main eschatological events will be in this order:

1.) The beast/antichrist comes to power.
2.) The rapture
3.) Great trib
4.) Physical return of Jesus

 

No, 1948 saw the lifting of God's punishment of the Jews for murdering Jesus, but He has NOT yet restored Judah and the rest of Israel as one nation yet. And the angels in tartarus won't be released til the Great White Throne judgment.

 

You are providing conjecture not supported in the context of scripture.

 

Yes, it IS. The destruction of the temple & Jerusalem were the "days of vengeance" Jesus declared against that generation of Jews for all the murders of the righteous up til that time. Then, they soon murdered Jesus. The punishment for that, & their continued rejection of Him began in 135-136 AD & culminated in the holocaust.

While most Jews continue to reject Jesus as Messiah, God lifted His punishment anyway, to begin the labor pains of the eschatological events. Remember, normally, labor pains begin slowly & mildly, & become more-frequent & intense as the time for birth approaches.

 

That is two things we agree on. Except I am not sure if your pre-trib, mid, or post.

 

May I ask your position? I already think your pre-millennium. Do you believe there is a rapture of the Bride? Are you pre, mid, or post-trib? I think it will help if I know your positions. Do you believe there will be a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on earth after His second coming?

Bro. Mike

 

Again, you are conjecturing due to a pretext you have created and somehow feel the need to explain.

 

Wrong, George. Christ was born of The Woman, just as the rest of her seed:

5 And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.
17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: Rev 12

 

Our positions are very close. I only believe in one rapture at the mid-trib Here is how I see it....

CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER OF FUTURE EVENTS

1) A great ‘falling away’ from the faith and God’s Word (today)
2) Russia’s Invasion of Israel (the trigger) Ez chaps 38-39
3) The 7-year Tribulation period begins, Daniel’s 70th week.
4) True saints discern the rise of Anti-Christ & False Prophet
5) God’s two prophets of Revelation 11:3-13 arise (Acts 3:19-21)
6) Restoration of Christ’s End-Time Church accomplished.
7) Antichrist’s image set up in temple 3 ½ years into tribulation
8) The “catching away,” Rapture of the Bride, at the “last trump”
9) The “day of the Lord” begins last 3 ½ years of tribulation
10) Day of the Lord “time of the heathen” (Ezek 30:3) last 3 ½
11) Persecution of Saints severe for last 42 months (Rev 13:5-7)
12) God the Father prepares to save His Bride, 1/3 of Israel
13) The battle of Armageddon, Christ returns with his saints
14) The 24-hr “terrible day of the Lord” Joel 2:31; Zep 1:14-17
15) Christ returns to the Mount of Olives, 1/3 of Israel saved
16) The judgment seat of Christ, rewards, and loss of rewards
17) The Marriage Supper of the Lamb
18) The 1000-year reign of Christ begins with his Bride
19) Heaven on earth, new heaven, and new earth
20) Eternity with God and Jesus Christ forever! Amen!

 

I am pre-trib. I believe Jesus will call up every saint at the time of the rapture before the trib, but there will be more who will become saints afterward, I. E. the "trib saints".

 

The "pretext" was created by actual events & an understanding of Scripture. I presented facts, not guesswork.

 

I agree with you on the tribulation saints, but I believe it's mid-trib as the 'last trump' is the last of the seven trumpets in Revelation.

"And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him" Matt 25:6

 

And here we have an extreme example of downplaying of the desolation in AD70. No, RobyCop, the punishment began in the 60s and, as far as the Jewish dispensation was concerned, ended in AD 70 with the destruction of their Temple, the necessary center of their spiritual identity. Their kingdom was taken away and "given to a nation producing its fruit." - Matt. 21:43

What happened in 135-136 AD paled in comparison. Then they lost real estate. In AD 70 they lost much, much more - their covenant relation to God. They lost the very means of acceptable worship.

 

You provided conjecture by taking events of your choosing and shoving them into the Bible to make your narrative fit.
Tell me where 1948 is shown in scripture as a definite fulfillment of prophecy. You cannot find it. You have to force it into a scripture passage. As I read the pretrib theories I am again shown how much juggling and conjecture must be done to actually believe the theory. I would be interested to see pretrib folks tell our persecuted brothers and sisters that they are not going through tribulation as they are being martyred for the faith. Pretrib rapture theory is such a western Christian world concoction to avoid the fear of dying for one's faith.

 

God said He'd keep His Church from the "hour of trial" that shall come upon the whole earth.

Right now, it's be almost impossible to institute the "mark of the beast", which will likely be some sorta microchip. With all the Christians gone, the opposition will be nil.

 

Jesus proclaimed the "days of vengeance" upon THAT generation, & that's what the Roman sacking was. When Hadrian booted the Jews from their land, they lost their homes, businesses & incomes, & most of their possessions, & were the subject of persecution & hatred wherever they went. That scorn kept up for over 1800 years, culminating in the holocaust, which was much-worse than the Jerusalem event.

There were plenty of Christian Jews that survived Jerusalem as well as "orthodox" Jews. They soon built synagogues, but the Romans wouldn't let them build a new temple, as they considered the old one to have been a seat of rebellion.

What they couldn't do any more was sacrifice animals or have an official priesthood. But they still followed the Old Covenant much as possible, same as they do now.

 

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

Show us where God put an actual date upon ANY prophecy besides saying "Such-n-such will happen within a year", etc. And the events are clear. When the nazis fell, the Jews soon began taking revenge upon concentration camp guards, etc. And when a coalition of Moslem nations attacked the newly-minted nation of Israel in 1948, the Jews kicked their cans, & have been growing stronger ever since. God didn't actually declare punishment on the Jews for rejecting & murdering Jesus, but there can be no denying it occurred. There was no hint of what that punishment would be, how long it'd last, & when it'd end. While I believe He isn't punishing Judah as a whole any more, the individual Jews who die unsaved will face the same penalty as any other who dies unsaved.

Doesn't take much at all! The trib will hit the WHOLE WORLD, & some of its details are given in Revelation.

And God said He'd keep His Church from the hour of trial that will come upon the whole world.