Made, not Declared

[Van]

Readers can see that the OP rejects all scripture showing his assertion wrong. He "snips" out that which he dislikes.
If readers have been here for any length of time they have seen the OP regurgitate his wrong position over and over again with the same Godly responses being rejected by the OP.
After reading this post the OP will opine about calvinism and other isms while still rejecting the verses that show his position to be wrong.
This will begin in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

Once again this Calvinist smears his opponent, but has nothing specific to say.
I reject no scripture, only its misrepresentation, the hallmark of Calvinism.
Then the claim somewhere in the unreferenced past a Calvinist has shown a flaw in the biblical doctrine. Nonsense

Did you see where Romans 5:19 does not say we are made righteous? Neither did I.

Here is the biblical basis claimed to be refuted!
Does God credit our faith as righteousness? See Romans 4
Do sinners understand and respond to the gospel? See Matthew 13.
Does God transfer individuals into Christ's kingdom? See Colossians 1:13
Are we made righteous in Christ? See Romans 5:19.
Are we made perfect? See Hebrews 12:23
Are we made blameless and holy? See Colossians 1:22
Are we sealed with the Holy Spirit forever? See Ephesians 1:13 and John 14:16

 

[percho]

From Col 2:12

διὰ τῆς πίστεως τῆς ἐνεργείας τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἐγείραντος αὐτὸν ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν·

That verse and that, from that verse IMHO states all you need to know relative to, faith. Heb 11:1 Heb 12:2 the faith

In faith The Son of God, died, gave his life a ransom, which was the faith of God the Father who therefore for grace, God the Father raised the Son of God out of the dead ones.

That is what Eph 2:8 states

Obedience of Faith.

 

[AustinC]

Once again this Calvinist smears his opponent, but has nothing specific to say.
I reject no scripture, only its misrepresentation, the hallmark of Calvinism.
Then the claim somewhere in the unreferenced past a Calvinist has shown a flaw in the biblical doctrine. Nonsense

Did you see where Romans 5:19 does not say we are made righteous? Neither did I.

Here is the biblical basis claimed to be refuted!
Does God credit our faith as righteousness? See Romans 4
Do sinners understand and respond to the gospel? See Matthew 13.
Does God transfer individuals into Christ's kingdom? See Colossians 1:13
Are we made righteous in Christ? See Romans 5:19.
Are we made perfect? See Hebrews 12:23
Are we made blameless and holy? See Colossians 1:22
Are we sealed with the Holy Spirit forever? See Ephesians 1:13 and John 14:16

Does God do all these things by His Sovereign will or must man, by his will that is entirely independent of God, choose to cooperate and by his independent cooperation be declared righteous?

 

[AustinC]

From Col 2:12

διὰ τῆς πίστεως τῆς ἐνεργείας τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἐγείραντος αὐτὸν ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν·

That verse and that, from that verse IMHO states all you need to know relative to, faith. Heb 11:1 Heb 12:2 the faith

In faith The Son of God, died, gave his life a ransom, which was the faith of God the Father who therefore for grace, God the Father raised the Son of God out of the dead ones.

That is what Eph 2:8 states

Obedience of Faith.

In other words... obedience via the law.
If faith is created, generated and established by the will of man then obedience of faith is really just obedience via the law.

 

[Van]

Does God do all these things by His Sovereign will or must man, by his will that is entirely independent of God, choose to cooperate and by his independent cooperation be declared righteous?

Only a person set on obfuscation would ignore the fact we are made, not declared righteous.

 

[Van]

From Col 2:12

διὰ τῆς πίστεως τῆς ἐνεργείας τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἐγείραντος αὐτὸν ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν·

That verse and that, from that verse IMHO states all you need to know relative to, faith. Heb 11:1 Heb 12:2 the faith

In faith The Son of God, died, gave his life a ransom, which was the faith of God the Father who therefore for grace, God the Father raised the Son of God out of the dead ones.

That is what Eph 2:8 states

Obedience of Faith.

Why not just present the verse:
Colossians 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with Him by means of your credited faith in the divine power of God who raised Jesus from the dead.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved by means of your credited faith; and that salvation is not of yourselves, salvation is the gift of God;

Thus according to scripture we are made righteous by means of our credited faith in the blood of the Lamb...
When we are baptized into Christ we undergo the washing of regeneration, the circumcision of Christ, and arise in Christ a new creation, holy and blameless...

 

[AustinC]

Only a person set on obfuscation would ignore the fact we are made, not declared righteous.

You never answered the question.

Does God do all these things by His Sovereign will or must man, by his will that is entirely independent of God, choose to cooperate and by his independent cooperation be declared righteous?

 

[AustinC]

Why not just present the verse:
Colossians 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with Him by means of your credited faith in the divine power of God who raised Jesus from the dead.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved by means of your credited faith; and that salvation is not of yourselves, salvation is the gift of God;

Thus according to scripture we are made righteous by means of our credited faith in the blood of the Lamb...
When we are baptized into Christ we undergo the washing of regeneration, the circumcision of Christ, and arise in Christ a new creation, holy and blameless...

Thanks for highlighting in red the assumption you have, but isn't actually stated in these verses. Indeed, you change the scripture to your own opinion.

According to scripture:

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
~ Ephesians 2:4-5

 

[Van]

You never answered the question.

Does God do all these things by His Sovereign will or must man, by his will that is entirely independent of God, choose to cooperate and by his independent cooperation be declared righteous?

Here we get yet another endless question/you did not answer the question obfuscation...
We are made righteous, not declared righteous
Salvation does not depend on the man that wills, Romans 9:16, but this Calvinist asks the question anyway...

 

[Van]

Thanks for highlighting in red the assumption you have, but isn't actually stated in these verses. Indeed, you change the scripture to your own opinion.

According to scripture:

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
~ Ephesians 2:4-5

Right, that is consistent with biblical doctrine, God made us alive when He put us into Christ such that we were "together with Christ"

 

[Van]

Note when the Greek preposition "dia" is used to show causality, either by means of or because of are literal translation choices. And only Calvinists would claim causality through uncredited faith...

Colossians 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with Him by means of your credited faith in the divine power of God who raised Jesus from the dead.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved by means of your credited faith; and that salvation is not of yourselves, salvation is the gift of God;

Thus according to scripture we are made righteous by means of our credited faith in the blood of the Lamb...

 

[AustinC]

Note when the Greek preposition "dia" is used to show causality, either by means of or because of are literal translation choices. And only Calvinists would claim causality through uncredited faith...

Colossians 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with Him by means of your credited faith in the divine power of God who raised Jesus from the dead.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved by means of your credited faith; and that salvation is not of yourselves, salvation is the gift of God;

Thus according to scripture we are made righteous by means of our credited faith in the blood of the Lamb...

Thanks for highlighting your personal additions to the Bible. We can all see your error.

 

[Yeshua1]

These verses in no way support the malarkey posted by Y1

God seems to disagree with that assertion!

 

[Yeshua1]

Only a person set on obfuscation would ignore the fact we are made, not declared righteous.

We are imputed, not infused rightiousness

 

[percho]

In other words... obedience via the law.
If faith is created, generated and established by the will of man then obedience of faith is really just obedience via the law.

who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, Heb 5:7,8
and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, Phil 2:8

I believe that is, obedience of faith. I believe that is what God the Father believed (had faith of) the Son of God would be. I believe that is shown in Romans 3:23 whom God did set forth a mercy seat, through the faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of His righteousness, because of the passing over of the bygone sins in the forbearance of God --

And is the righteousness of God apart from the law - V 21,22 And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and the righteousness of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference,

Therefore verse 26 for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being righteous, and declaring him righteous who is of the faith of Jesus.

 

[AustinC]

who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, Heb 5:7,8
and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, Phil 2:8

I believe that is, obedience of faith. I believe that is what God the Father believed (had faith of) the Son of God would be. I believe that is shown in Romans 3:23 whom God did set forth a mercy seat, through the faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of His righteousness, because of the passing over of the bygone sins in the forbearance of God --

And is the righteousness of God apart from the law - V 21,22 And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and the righteousness of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference,

Therefore verse 26 for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being righteous, and declaring him righteous who is of the faith of Jesus.

How do you get unredeemed and unregenerate humans displaying obedience of faith from Hebrews 5 and Philippians 2? Both are speaking of God the Son.

Hebrews 5:5-10 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; as he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.” In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Philippians 2:5-11 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Are you implying that rebellious mankind is equal to God the Son? I doubt that is your position.

How is it that you cannot accept that God gives to his chosen children the gift of faith?

 

[Van]

Thanks for highlighting your personal additions to the Bible. We can all see your error.

Material false statement

 

[Van]

God seems to disagree with that assertion!

In your dreams...

 

[Van]

We are imputed, not infused rightiousness

Fiction

 

[Van]

Does God credit our faith as righteousness? See Romans 4
Do sinners understand and respond to the gospel? See Matthew 13.
Does God transfer individuals into Christ's kingdom? See Colossians 1:13
Are we made righteous in Christ? See Romans 5:19.
Are we made perfect? See Hebrews 12:23
Are we made blameless and holy? See Colossians 1:22
Are we sealed with the Holy Spirit forever? See Ephesians 1:13 and John 14:16

Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

Romans 4:23-24 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him,
but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead

Colossians 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with Him by means of your credited faith in the divine power of God who raised Jesus from the dead.