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Featured Reformed V Biblical Salvation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jun 16, 2021.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    so WHY does the elect need to hear the Gospel and believe, if they are SAVED in eternity past? This is utter nonsense!!!
     
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    It has nothing to do with the issue and shows once again you lack understanding of John3.
    How did Jn.3:16 help the world of the ungodly in the day of Noah?
    How about the sodomites destroyed in Sodom and Gomorrah?
     
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you guys make me laugh! God's love for the lost is very much in the entire Bible, if you were to read Ezekiel, for example, you will see time and again, that the Lord says that He did not desire the wicked perish, but that they repent and live! God's love is so great, that He sent the unwilling Prophet Jonah to a people who hated not only the Lord, but also the Jewish People, so that these could also hear the Gospel, and repent and be saved!

    Your theology limits the Great love and work of our Wonderful God!
     
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  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You did not answer about the Flood or Sodom...why is that?
    Did Noah post jn3:16 outside of the Ark?
    Did the angels give the four spiritual laws to the Sodomites?
     
    #64 Iconoclast, Jun 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
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  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    what is there to answer? this does not prove that God did not love these people. the fact that in both cases the Lord warned them, and gave them a chance to repent, shows His Great love for them! This is exactly what Paul means in Romans 9:22, "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction". God "endured with MUCH longsuffering", with those who are going to end up in hell. WHY? WHY even bother with these, if, as Reformed teaching says, that God actually HATES the non-elect??? See, the Bible is AGAINST this theology!
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    How about this verse???

    KJ21
    Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’”
    ASV
    Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
    AMP
    Now go and strike Amalek and completely destroy everything that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
    AMPC
    Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.
    BRG
    Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
    CSB
    Now go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Do not spare them. Kill men and women, infants and nursing babies, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
    CEB
    So go! Attack the Amalekites; put everything that belongs to them under the ban. Spare no one. Kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
    CJB
    Now go and attack ‘Amalek, and completely destroy everything they have. Don’t spare them, but kill men and women, children and babies, cows and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
    CEV
    “Go and attack the Amalekites! Destroy them and all their possessions. Don’t have any pity. Kill their men, women, children, and even their babies. Slaughter their cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys.”
    DARBY
    Now go and smite Amalek, and destroy utterly all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
    DRA
    Now therefore go, and smite Amalec, and utterly destroy all that he hath: spare him not, nor covet any thing that is his: but slay both man and woman, child and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
    ERV
    Now go fight against the Amalekites. You must completely destroy the Amalekites and everything that belongs to them. Don’t let anything live; you must kill all the men and women and all of their children and little babies. You must kill all of their cattle and sheep and all of their camels and donkeys.’”
    EHV
    Go and strike Amalek. Devote everything they have to destruction. Do not spare them. Kill both men and women, infants and nursing babies, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
    ESV
    Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
    ESVUK
    Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
    EXB
    Now go, ·attack [crush; L strike] the Amalekites and ·completely destroy everything they own as an offering devoted to the Lord [devote to destruction; C Israel was commanded to kill all the inhabitants of the land; Deut. 20:15–18]. Don’t ·let anything live [spare anything]. Put to death men and women, children and small babies, ·cattle [ox] and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
    GNV
    Now therefore go, and smite Amalek, and destroy ye all that pertaineth unto them, and have no compassion on them, but slay both man and woman, both infant and suckling, both ox, and sheep, both camel, and ass.
    GW
    Now go and attack Amalek. Claim everything they have for God by destroying it. Don’t spare them, but kill men and women, infants and children, cows and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
    GNT
    Go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Don't leave a thing; kill all the men, women, children, and babies; the cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys.”
    HCSB
    Now go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Do not spare them. Kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
    ICB
    Now go, attack the Amalekites. Destroy everything that belongs to them as an offering to the Lord. Don’t let anything live. Put to death men and women, children and small babies. Kill the cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
    ISV
    Now, go and attack Amalek. Completely destroy all that they have. Don’t spare them, but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, both ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
    JUB
    Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have and spare him not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
    KJV
    Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
    AKJV
    Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
    LEB
    So then, go and attack Amalek and utterly destroy all that is his! You must not spare him, but kill both man and woman, both child and nursing infant, both ox and sheep, both camel and donkey.’”
    TLB
    Now go and completely destroy the entire Amalek nation—men, women, babies, little children, oxen, sheep, camels, and donkeys.’”
    MSG
    Samuel said to Saul, “God sent me to anoint you king over his people, Israel. Now, listen again to what God says. This is the God-of-the-Angel-Armies speaking: “‘I’m about to get even with Amalek for ambushing Israel when Israel came up out of Egypt. Here’s what you are to do: Go to war against Amalek. Put everything connected with Amalek under a holy ban. And no exceptions! This is to be total destruction—men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys—the works.’”
    MEV
    Now go and strike Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not have compassion on them but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”
    NOG
    Now go and attack Amalek. Claim everything they have for God by destroying it. Don’t spare them, but kill men and women, infants and children, cows and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
     
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  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You do not understand the long suffering of God....He tolerates the wicked until all the elect are drawn savingly to faith.
    Nowhere does it say that God loved the reprobates?

    30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the Lord hath rejected them.

    The love of God is only found IN Christ.

    38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

    39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, Shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
     
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  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I understand fully! you have not shown WHY God would even bother to WARN those who were about to die in the Flood, if He did not LOVE them??? He warned these, because of His Great LOVE for them, and to get them saved! Your theology makes the God of the Bible into some hateful monster!
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The fact is your theology is bankrupt when you are asked to show biblically how these verses fit in your Pollyanna explanation of theology.

    What indication can you show that first Sam 15:3 was comparable to jn3:16?
     
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  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Here is just ONE verse about God's own Chosen People, the Children of Israel

    Therefore was the WRATH of the LORD kindled AGAINST HIS PEOPLE, insomuch that he ABHORRED (HATED, DETESTED) His OWN inheritance - Psalm 106:40
     
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  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    That God warns the wicked is a great mercy, and He does not take pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, but they will certainly be justly destroyed.
    The saints in heaven praise God for His righteous judgment of the wicked, in rev19:1-4.
    They do not blame God for man's sin, or refer to His righteous judgment profanely by saying it is monstrous, as you do.

    19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

    2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

    3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

    4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

    5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

    6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
     
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  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    But WHY would God even BOTHER to WARN those He is going to send to HELL???

    WHY did Jesus tell Judas this?

    "The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” Mat 26:24

    This is to WARN Judas against his actions, because Jesus LOVED him!
     
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Your theology cannot arrive at truth as it is infested with inconsistencies.
    The love of God is in our hearts by the Holy Ghost .

    5 And hope maketh not ashamed;
    because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    The unsaved are not given the Holy Ghost.
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    God has ordained means, both for salvation and damnation ,look here;
    14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

    15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

    16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

    17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

    Do you ignore such verses????
     
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    your HATE for the unsaved is so frightening! :eek:
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    so you believe in double predestination?
     
  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Read your Bible
    MB
     
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  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Not only do you twist scripture but you also try to twist my words. God can do what ever wants to. You just can't prove that He does want to. The Bible is my proof not some phony doctrine that does not come from scripture
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    We know the answer...
     
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  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    This does not answer the question How is it we are in Christ even before we are saved? Seems to me that you are not considering the Whole Bible
    MB
     
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