Reformed V Biblical Salvation

[AustinC]

Please don't ever comment on anything that I write. You will be on permanent ignore. You are a deluded nutjob

And now we see your true colors. You butcher God's word, question his sovereignty, refuse to accept his full authority in saving souls without human assistance and you call me, who has provided countless passages of scripture showing your works salvation by law to be wrong, yet you call me a "nutjob." Your hardness of heart is evident. I wonder if you would change your mind if Jesus himself met you and talked to you.
I pray you one day come to understand biblical grace.

 

[AustinC]

says you...

Sigh...always fighting against the truth...it must be hard to reject Jesus Sovereign authority and yet claim to love him at the same time.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Egad, you're blind. Not only was it prophetic that Edom would serve Israel, but "the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls" was illustrative of the wondrous truth of God's Unconditional Election of His own .

Seems like you can't understand the KJV English try a simpler Bible

 

[Iconoclast]

Actually have been here quite awhile. I just hadn’t started posting until months ago.

Ah, the classic rainforest question.
So here’s what I believe about that and I only have time to give a couple examples.

The Witness of the Conscience

The Bible speaks of a thing being established by the testimony of at least two witnesses (2 Cor 13:1, Duet 17:6). There are two witnesses that proclaim that there is a God even without the gospel: The creation and the conscience. This is what Paul focuses on in Romans 2:14-16 by writing, “[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: [15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another [16] In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”

What Paul is saying is that the Law of God – that is to do what is good and not what is evil – is written on their hearts and bears witness to the truth in “their conscience."

The Roman Centurion, Cornelius was a great example of this because he didn’t know the gospel fully or about Jesus Christ but was still called a “A devout man, and one that feared God..” (Acts 10:2). Listen to how God heard him and understood that Cornelius knew God even before he knew about the gospel in Acts 10:1-7:
[1]There was a certain man in Cæsarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band a called the Italian band, [2] A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. [3] He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. [4] And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. [5] And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: [6] He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do. [7] And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually; …”

Not only was Cornelius a God-fearing man but so was his entire household and one of the soldiers that attended to him was also said to be a “devout soldier." Cornelius probably didn’t know about Jesus Christ but he did know that God was real because when God spoke to him He seemed to know Him immediately saying, “What is it, Lord?" The men that Cornelius sent to Peter told him that “And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.” (Act 10:22). Eventually Cornelius was baptized (Act 10:47).

I gotta get going, but is my 2 cents.

Thank you for your response most of which I can agree with.

However let me clarify....this is not....the classic rainforest question.

This is specific.....you posted jn.12:32.......how did that in anyway draw the man in the rainforest? Jesus accomplishes redemption.....how was that man drawn to salvation because Jesus was "lifted up"?

 

[Iconoclast]

With all do respect, I almost said this to several of you.
Calvinist is fatalism, twists Scripture to fit a man made philosophy of the words of God.

To suggest Calvinist teaching is fatalism demonstrates that you do not understand either fatalism or Calvinism.

 

[Iconoclast]

I like the way you SELECT portions from Romans 9 to suit your BIASED theology!

If you were to deal with this honestly, then you will see 2 things here. Firstly, note what Paul actually does say, and NOT what you WANT him to says. Verse 12 is VERY CLEAR to anyone who is not blinded by Calvinistic/Reformed twisting, "It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger". It is SERVING of the elder to the younger, that is meant, and has NOTHING to do with salvation, as some would FORCE the Bible to say! Secondly WHY did you omit verse 22??? "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction". WHY does God ENDURE WITH MUCH LONGSUFFERING", those who are lost and going to hell??? The ONLY honest answer is found in the correct reading of 2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is LONGSUFFERING toward YOU (the mockers, and false teaches in 2:1!!!), not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance".

Before YOU jump on others, look hard at YOURSELF!

Wrong again.

 

[Iconoclast]

I agree as this means God would know beforehand that he was going to create human beings that he planned on throwing into hell to suffer. Why even create in the first place if the intention is for some to suffer. How awful...
God gave us a choice as He did with Adam and Eve in the garden as to not eat of the fruit.
There’s also a choice in love or salvation. If God did not allow choice then there can’t truly be love and we’re all a bunch of robots.

Sorry you hate the biblical teaching of God's eternal purpose.
You cannot blame God for mans sin.
Your position seems to lead many to say such.
There are many good men on here who deny a point or two of the 5 pts.
They do not hold all 5 yet, but they defend their view WITHOUT blaming God, or calling names.

 

[Iconoclast]

because you post NONSENSE! To FORCE the Bible to support your TWISTED theology!

Show why you suggest it was"nonsense"
Comment on the verses...try to follow what they say.

 

[Iconoclast]

I agree as this means God would know beforehand that he was going to create human beings that he planned on throwing into hell to suffer. Why even create in the first place if the intention is for some to suffer. How awful...
God gave us a choice as He did with Adam and Eve in the garden as to not eat of the fruit.
There’s also a choice in love or salvation. If God did not allow choice then there can’t truly be love and we’re all a bunch of robots.

Do you think the fall took God by surprise?

 

[37818]

Reformation theology is because of its Biblical theology. Where Christians disagree is were one or both depart from the Biblical.

 

[AustinC]

Reformation theology is because of its Biblical theology. Where Christians disagree is were one or both depart from the Biblical.

Our disagreement is ultimately between synergism (man cooperates in his salvation) and monergism (God saves man apart from and even against his cooperation, by grace and grace alone).

 

[Stratton7]

And now we see your true colors. You butcher God's word, question his sovereignty, refuse to accept his full authority in saving souls without human assistance and you call me, who has provided countless passages of scripture showing your works salvation by law to be wrong, yet you call me a "nutjob." Your hardness of heart is evident. I wonder if you would change your mind if Jesus himself met you and talked to you.
I pray you one day come to understand biblical grace.

Yet you’ve called him sbw more than once... Saved by works. Take the log out of your own eye, sir.

The Bible, in context, has been shown to you, ad nauseam, yet you make excuse after excuse in order to preach salvation by works.

Your theology comes from hell and you think it comes from God the Sovereign King.

(This was to SBG) but I might as jump in since I happen to agree with what he’s shared.
However, I don’t know if he believes you have to keep works up, but I don’t.
Anyway, I believe the free gift of Salvation is accepted and doesn’t need to have any works to maintain it. We are secured through Christ eternally. We are called as Christians to do good works though. But Salvation does not need to be earned.

I suppose we could say the same about your theology.

 

[Stratton7]

To suggest Calvinist teaching is fatalism demonstrates that you do not understand either fatalism or Calvinism.

Good grief.

English Language Learners Definition of fatalism : the belief that what will happen has already been decided and cannot be changed.

Fatalism is a family of related philosophical doctrines that stress the subjugation of all events or actions to fate or destiny.

That’s exactly what Calvinism teaches.

 

[Stratton7]

Sorry you hate the biblical teaching of God's eternal purpose.
You cannot blame God for mans sin.
Your position seems to lead many to say such.
There are many good men on here who deny a point or two of the 5 pts.
They do not hold all 5 yet, but they defend their view WITHOUT blaming God, or calling names.

Excuse you but I don’t hate anything from the Bible.
God is not to blame for man’s sin. I don’t even know from what you made this up from.

When examined one can say they only hold to a pt or 2, but to accept any of them ultimately requires them to accept them all.

If God has already pre-saved people, then you’d have to accept others have been pre-doomed to hell.
That is simply not biblical.

 

[Stratton7]

Do you think the fall took God by surprise?

No, it didn’t. God is omniscient. But that in no way suggests he chose people to be saved and others to hell unless you twist Scripture. He still allowed Adam and Eve free will to make his choice in the garden.

 

[Iconoclast]

Good grief.

English Language Learners Definition of fatalism : the belief that what will happen has already been decided and cannot be changed.

Fatalism is a family of related philosophical doctrines that stress the subjugation of all events or actions to fate or destiny.

That’s exactly what Calvinism teaches.

Calvinism does not teach blind fate.
it teaches that God in love has an eternal plan that is progressively revealed throughout time ,
and now fully revealed to the Church.
God in love controls whatsoever comes to pass.
If you want fatalism look to Islam.
So by making such an accusation you demonstrate your two errors.
Before launching an attack, get your ducks in a row.

 

[Iconoclast]

No, it didn’t. God is omniscient. But that in no way suggests he chose people to be saved and others to hell unless you twist Scripture. He still allowed Adam and Eve free will to make his choice in the garden.

When scripture teaches that exact thing 2tim1:9...why do you hate that truth so much?
free will is a carnal philosophy not taught anywhere in scripture ...
offer your free will verse....not verses saying choose.....but rather free will...go for it...

 

[Iconoclast]

Excuse you but I don’t hate anything from the Bible.
God is not to blame for man’s sin. I don’t even know from what you made this up from.

When examined one can say they only hold to a pt or 2, but to accept any of them ultimately requires them to accept them all.

If God has already pre-saved people, then you’d have to accept others have been pre-doomed to hell.
That is simply not biblical.

stratton
show it in scripture
Where did i say God pre saved people?
God planned and elected a multitude to become saved.
They were all born dead in Adam.
They were children of wrath,even as others.
you cannot play fast and loose with the languge.
predestination is used positivey of the elect being conformed to the image of the Son.
I am not interested in your logic but rather scripture.
show it.

 

[Iconoclast]

Seems like you can't understand the KJV English try a simpler Bible

He has it correct, you err once again

 

[Stratton7]

Calvinism does not teach blind fate.
it teaches that God in love has an eternal plan that is progressively revealed throughout time ,
and now fully revealed to the Church.
God in love controls whatsoever comes to pass.
If you want fatalism look to Islam.
So by making such an accusation you demonstrate your two errors.
Before launching an attack, get your ducks in a row.

That’s what you say. The definition I posted shows the same thing as believing God is choosing only some to be saved beforehand as opposed to accepting the gift of Salvation because of what Christ has done.
It’s believing what will happen has already been decided. Same thing!