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Are the British Empire & the USA in prophecy?

robycop3

Well-Known Member
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Now, in Gen. 49, we shall see what God told Jacob to say to his other sons. This might help with identifying their descendants today!

Gen. 49:
And Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days:


2 “Gather together and hear, you sons of Jacob,
And listen to Israel your father.

3 “Reuben, you are my firstborn,
My might and the beginning of my strength,
The excellency of dignity and the excellency of power.
4 Unstable as water, you shall not excel,
Because you went up to your father’s bed;
Then you defiled it
He went up to my couch.

5 “Simeon and Levi are brothers;
Instruments of cruelty are in their dwelling place.
6 Let not my soul enter their council;
Let not my honor be united to their assembly;
For in their anger they slew a man,
And in their self-will they hamstrung an ox.
7 Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce;
And their wrath, for it is cruel!
I will divide them in Jacob
And scatter them in Israel.

8 “Judah, you are he whom your brothers shall praise;
Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies;
Your father’s children shall bow down before you.
9 Judah is a lion’s whelp;
From the prey, my son, you have gone up.
He bows down, he lies down as a lion;
And as a lion, who shall rouse him?
10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes;
And to Him shall be the obedience of the people.
11 Binding his donkey to the vine,
And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine,
He washed his garments in wine,
And his clothes in the blood of grapes.
12 His eyes are darker than wine,
And his teeth whiter than milk.

13 “Zebulun shall dwell by the haven of the sea;
He shall become a haven for ships,
And his border shall adjoin Sidon.

14 “Issachar is a strong donkey,
Lying down between two burdens;
15 He saw that rest was good,
And that the land was pleasant;
He bowed his shoulder to bear a burden,
And became a band of slaves.

16 “Dan shall judge his people
As one of the tribes of Israel.
17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way,
A viper by the path,
That bites the horse’s heels
So that its rider shall fall backward.
18 I have waited for your salvation, O Lord!

19 “Gad, a troop shall tramp upon him,
But he shall triumph at last.

20 “Bread from Asher shall be rich,
And he shall yield royal dainties.

21 “Naphtali is a deer let loose;
He uses beautiful words.

22 “Joseph is a fruitful bough,
A fruitful bough by a well;
His branches run over the wall.
23 The archers have bitterly grieved him,
Shot at him and hated him.
24 But his bow remained in strength,
And the arms of his hands were made strong
By the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob
(From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),
25 By the God of your father who will help you,
And by the Almighty who will bless you
With blessings of heaven above,
Blessings of the deep that lies beneath,
Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.
26 The blessings of your father
Have excelled the blessings of my ancestors,
Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills.
They shall be on the head of Joseph,
And on the crown of the head of him who was separate from his brothers.

27 “Benjamin is a ravenous wolf;
In the morning he shall devour the prey,
And at night he shall divide the spoil.”

28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel, and this is what their father spoke to them. And he blessed them; he blessed each one according to his own blessing.


Now, I believe this is the latter part of the "last days". Note that neither the British Empire nor the USA are that old compared with the history of man since Jacob's time. (C. 2100 BC)
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
First, let me say I AM NOT A "BRITISH ISRAELITE", nor do I subscribe to any of their racist garbage. And also, I don't subscribe to the late Herbert Armstrong's wacky theories.

That being said, let's look at the evidence of what became of Israel's tribes of Joseph, Ephraim & Manasseh.

In Genesis 35:11, God had told Jacob that his posterity would become "a nation and a company of nations". And in Genesis 49, as Jacob lay dying, he blessed each of his sons. When Joseph brought his sons by Potiphar's daughter, Jacob, at God's direction, gave the greater blessing to Ephraim, the younger, while passing the birthright to Joseph & then those 2 boys, saying all other children born to Joseph would inherit from Joseph - and he adopted Ephraim & Manasseh as his own, same as Reuben, etc. saying "LET MY NAME BE NAMED ON THEM." And he said Ephraim would become a company of nations. (During those prophecies, he said Judah would be the father of the rulers of Israel til Shiloh, Jesus, came, but the BIRTHRIGHT WAS JOSEPH'S.)

Now, while the birthright, conceived by God, had passed from Abraham to Isaac to Jacob to Joseph, it had not been MANIFESTED in any of them. It promised great material wealth & power, but each of those early fathers was already wealthy by other means, especially Joseph, who was Grand Vizier of Egypt. And it was not manifested in ancient Israel, which remained a minor nation throughout its existence.

But God's words are always 100% right, so the birthright MUST be manifested in this world to fulfill God's prophecy. So, where was it manifested, or will be manifested before Jesus returns?

Let's look at the world's largest empires. Right now, the world's largest nation is still Russia. The old Soviet Union dominated some 15.31 % of the world's land However, it was not as large as the Mongol Empire of the Khans, which ruled some 16.11 % of the world's land. But this large empire was dwarfed by the BRITISH EMPIRE, which, at its height, ruled some 23.84 % of the world's land, and together with the USA, controlled some 80% of all the world's resources! This is NOT guesswork; you can see the facts for yourselves online or in any good encyclopedia.

Now, just HOW did a small nation, occupying half an island, a nation slightly smaller than our state of Alabama, become master of the greatest empire of all time up til now? It could only have been through DIVINE POWER. Same for the thirteen American colonies throwing off the yoke of the world's strongest empire in 1776 & holding off that empire in 1812-14. I believe it's quite-obvious that GOD'S HAND was instrumental in forming the British Empire & the USA.

Is it just coincidental that mostly BRITISH people formed the USA? Or that they use the same language? That they fought together in the two greatest wars in history? I don't believe so.

And, is it also coincidental that Britain & the USA have played such important roles in the history of modern Israel, & the Jews in general before Israel was formed? Again, I don't believe so.

In Deut. 33, Moses, guided by God, prophesied these blessings upon Joseph: "13 About Joseph he said:

“May the Lord bless his land
with the precious dew from heaven above
and with the deep waters that lie below;
14
with the best the sun brings forth
and the finest the moon can yield;
15
with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains
and the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills;
16
with the best gifts of the earth and its fullness
and the favor of him who dwelt in the burning bush.
Let all these rest on the head of Joseph,
on the brow of the prince among his brothers.
17
In majesty he is like a firstborn bull;
his horns are the horns of a wild ox.
With them he will gore the nations,
even those at the ends of the earth.
Such are the ten thousands of Ephraim;
such are the thousands of Manasseh.”


God promised vast material wealth and great military power upon both tribes. This was NOT manifested in ancient Israel, but it MUST occur, as God's word is always 100% true!

Now, I'm not saying this is set in stone, of course, but the best candidates to be the descendants of Joseph are Britain & the USA, given their history. As for all the other people who arr part of these nations, we see that in the history of ancient Israel, there were other peoples living among them from the gitgo, who were treated as Israelis. These include Egyptians who left Egypt with Israel, their relatives the Kenites, some Ethiopians (Moses had an Ethiopian wife), the Gibeonites, later, some Jebusites & other assorted Canaanites, to name a few.

I remain open, of course, to consider any other candidates to be the descendants of Joseph, long as there's sound Scriptural and historical evidence, but right now I'm leaning toward Britain & the USA.
You need to realize that Christ and the Church are Biblical Israel. Those calling themselves "Israel" are not. God removed them from Israel.
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You need to realize that Christ and the Church are Biblical Israel. Those calling themselves "Israel" are not. God removed them from Israel.
You need to realize there's SPIRITUAL Israel & PHYSICAL Israel. A physical Israeli(or anyone else) can become a spiritual Israeli, but one can only be a physical Israeli by inheritance.
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
One easily-seen fulfillment of Jacob-s prophecies to his sons-Levi was dispersed thruout ancient Israel, & after the Jews broke from the other tribes, the Levites joined them & became Jews. And the Levites were blessed to have produced Moses, Aaron, & Miriam, along with the priesthood.

As for Benjamin, it was a small but mighty tribe, with many of its warriors proficiant with a sling, which was quite a dangerous long-distance weapon. Due to its small size, it ended up becoming Jews. Paul was a Benjaminite Jew.
 
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1689Dave

Well-Known Member
You need to realize there's SPIRITUAL Israel & PHYSICAL Israel. A physical Israeli(or anyone else) can become a spiritual Israeli, but one can only be a physical Israeli by inheritance.
Circumcision made one a member of Israel. Christ abolished it on the cross. It's a religion, not a race.
 

robycop3

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Circumcision made one a member of Israel. Christ abolished it on the cross. It's a religion, not a race.
MMRRPP ! WRONG !

Paul was still a Jew by race after Jesus died, & after his salvation. He said as much himself.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
MMRRPP ! WRONG !

Paul was still a Jew by race after Jesus died, & after his salvation. He said as much himself.
Race? God made of one blood all nations. It's a religion, one of the most wicked today that is based on their hatred of Christ. And you think they're just swell?
 

robycop3

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Site Supporter
Race? God made of one blood all nations. It's a religion, one of the most wicked today that is based on their hatred of Christ. And you think they're just swell?

The only RACE men have in common is "homo sapiens". You see my pic in my posts. Do I look like Obama except for being a human?

All dogs are canis lupus familiaris. But my 125-lb. Siberian husky doesn't look at all like my daughter-in-law's 4 lb. Chihuahua. While both are dogs, they're very-different in both appearance and habits.They're separate BREEDS of the same species.

We call the different types of people "races" because "breed" is used for animals. And, like it or not, the Jewish people are their own "breed", or "race", regardless of their religion.

And the religion is separate from race. Sammy Davis Jr. was a Jew by religion, but not by race. Paul was a Jew by race, but, after his salvation, not by religion. He remained a racial Jew after his salvation.

I don't see why you insist on the hooey you posted above when Scripture plainly shows race & religion are separate entities.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
The only RACE men have in common is "homo sapiens". You see my pic in my posts. Do I look like Obama except for being a human?

All dogs are canis lupus familiaris. But my 125-lb. Siberian husky doesn't look at all like my daughter-in-law's 4 lb. Chihuahua. While both are dogs, they're very-different in both appearance and habits.They're separate BREEDS of the same species.

We call the different types of people "races" because "breed" is used for animals. And, like it or not, the Jewish people are their own "breed", or "race", regardless of their religion.

And the religion is separate from race. Sammy Davis Jr. was a Jew by religion, but not by race. Paul was a Jew by race, but, after his salvation, not by religion. He remained a racial Jew after his salvation.

I don't see why you insist on the hooey you posted above when Scripture plainly shows race & religion are separate entities.
The bible doesn't teach racism. We are one blood called the human race. Besides, any baby boy not circumcised on the 8th day remained a gentile and was kicked out of Israel.
 

percho

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Site Supporter
The fundamental question is - Did Jesus fulfil prophecy regarding Israel/Judah by his FINISHED work?

The disciples on the Emmaus road expressed their disappointment - "but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel." (Luke 24:21) Note Jesus' reply to them and then to the Apostles -
44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”​

Acts records that many thousands of Israelites/Jews did believe their Messiah and formed the church. Soon Gentiles were added without circumcision. It is wrong therefore to think of the Jews being rejected by God for their unbelief for 50 generations or 2,000 years. Only the generation that rejected Jesus during his earthly ministry, and then rejected the Gospel suffered - in AD 70.

Note specific prophecy concerning unbelieving Israel -
Malachi 4:4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
6 And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”
Many thousands did believe John - but the Jewish leaders refused to acknowledge him when Jesus challenged them.

Matthew 24:34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
God's judgment was limited to the generation that rejected Jesus. AD 70.

Mat. 21:43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
Note God's promise to Moses in Exodus 19:5,6 concerning a "holy nation." And note the way Peter quotes the promise as applying to the believers. 1 Peter 2.

Luke 11:49 Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,’ 50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.
"This generation" again.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’
There would not be a continuation of unbelieving Israel after their final rejection of Jesus and the Gospel.

Acts 3:24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
"All the prophets." The attempt to claim unfulfilled prophecy applying to some future carnal nation of Israel is a denial of the fulfilment of prophecy by the LORD Jesus Christ.

And note the way Peter quotes the promise as applying to the believers. 1 Peter 2.

Talk to me about the good figs and the bad figs of Jer 24. Did there need to be some good figs in the land when ; but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, ? Where were the bad figs of the House of Judah at that time.

The man asked and answered. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. Whether good or bad God has not cast them away, God scattered, Them.

Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. Amos 3:1,2 ----- That was written just before God began to scatter them beginning with the House of Israel then the House of Judah bringing back some good figs for the purpose of Christ to be born.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the choice sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to a foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied! 1 Peter 1:1,2 YLT You only have I known. What does sojourners, mean? Forever? Exactly who was Peter writing, for? Who would need to read concerning: When in the fulness of time? Was it the same people James was writing, for? James 1:1 YLT James, of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ a servant, to the Twelve Tribes who are in the dispersion: Hail!

What did Moses tell God when God was ready to cast them off and begin anew with Moses?

IMHO Rule ship of the kingdom will be given to a remnant of chosen ones of God to rule with Christ, over all the people of the kingdom .
 

percho

Well-Known Member
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You need to realize that Christ and the Church are Biblical Israel. Those calling themselves "Israel" are not. God removed them from Israel.

Do you believe God can graft them in, again? Do you believe God is going to graft them in, again? Do you think the means for grafting in is similar to reconciliation by the blood of Christ?
 
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robycop3

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The bible doesn't teach racism. We are one blood called the human race. Besides, any baby boy not circumcised on the 8th day remained a gentile and was kicked out of Israel.
Actually, the Bible DOES mention racism. Moses was criticized for having an Ethiopian wife. And an uncircumcised boy was still a racial Israeli. That couldn't be changed by men. If I slept in a garage, would that change me into a car ?
 
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1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Do you believe God can graft them in, again? Do you believe God is going to graft them in, again? Do you think the means for grafting in is similar to reconciliation by the blood of Christ?
Jews have accepted Christ, making them Christians, since Jesus arrived in the first advent. This is ongoing.

But mind you, they exist as a body of gentiles since Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. They exist solely because of their hatred of Christ and remain under God's wrath till the end of time. Biblical Israel is Christ and his church.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Actually, the Bible DOES mention racism. Moses was criticized for having an Ethiopian wife. And an uncircumcised boy was still a racial Israeli. That couldn't be changed by men. If I slept in a garage, would that change me into a car ?
It only suggests that sinful people are racists. I see no distinction in people. We are all of one blood.
 

robycop3

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Jews have accepted Christ, making them Christians, since Jesus arrived in the first advent. This is ongoing.

But mind you, they exist as a body of gentiles since Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. They exist solely because of their hatred of Christ and remain under God's wrath till the end of time. Biblical Israel is Christ and his church.
They'd still be Jews by race no matter what shape their organs are in.
 

robycop3

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It's a religion, not a race. Besides scripture rules out racism.
Judaism is a religion.
Being a Jew is being of a certain race.
Scripture does NOT rule out racism. Non-Israelis were not allowed in the Tabernacle or temple.
 
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