24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2
You go boy. Let's do this.
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What is the difference between Cornelius and the rich young ruler?
- Thread starter canadyjd
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24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2
You go boy. Let's do this.
So...share the entire passage and show us how God saves by justification of works in those passages. You cannot do so, which is why you quote a sentence and assert a theology from a sentence.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
We should not overlook the fact that the accounts of the rich young ruler and Cornelius indicate that others needed a lesson at least as much as those two, probably more so. "Who then can be saved?" “You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them.”
There is so much wrongheadedness in us that God has to go to great lengths to straighten us out.
Paul makes a point of the general principle in 1 Corinthians 10:6: "Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did."
There is so much wrongheadedness in us that God has to go to great lengths to straighten us out.
Paul makes a point of the general principle in 1 Corinthians 10:6: "Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did."
great! Show me from scripture that any action taken by man constitutes some form of merit toward salvation
Oh, I'm confident I can show the necessity of good works, lots of material on that subject. But you first prove your (<laugh> not yours, you're just a parrot) 'justification by faith ALONE'.
I'm confident you can't prove justification by faith alone. No where in the scripture does it say that.
James 2:1-26
My brothers,show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court? Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called? If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
So...what is James telling us?
1) Humans who, from their flesh, claim they have faith, but don't act accordingly to the law that is written on their heart (New Covenant) are not saved at all. They are damned sinners who are false Christians.
2) God's faith, gifted to the believer, does the work of the New Covenant written on the Christians heart.
3) Therefore, the faith that justifies us is a working faith that justifies us. It can do nothing but work because God's gift of faith works, it is not dead.
4) The claims of faith from a non-Christian are by the very deadness of that person...dead.
Yet, here we are with people, who call themselves Baptists, holding to the doctrines of Rome and proclaiming works as justification unto salvation. They have abandoned the Reformation.
My brothers,show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court? Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called? If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
So...what is James telling us?
1) Humans who, from their flesh, claim they have faith, but don't act accordingly to the law that is written on their heart (New Covenant) are not saved at all. They are damned sinners who are false Christians.
2) God's faith, gifted to the believer, does the work of the New Covenant written on the Christians heart.
3) Therefore, the faith that justifies us is a working faith that justifies us. It can do nothing but work because God's gift of faith works, it is not dead.
4) The claims of faith from a non-Christian are by the very deadness of that person...dead.
Yet, here we are with people, who call themselves Baptists, holding to the doctrines of Rome and proclaiming works as justification unto salvation. They have abandoned the Reformation.
You made gobbledygook of that. You didn't even highlight or include enough scripture to show what James meant by works:
27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Ja 2
These are the very same works by which we're all going to be judged in that day of judgement:
4 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Mt 25
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25
...by works a man is justified, and not only by faith....
Your attempt to connect the end time judgment (which I thought you believed happened in 70CE) in Matthew 25 to James 2 is a massive stretch and you have taken both out of context.
I provided all of James 2 for you. James 1 confirms my point in James 2.
No massive 'stretch', no stretch at all. Only in your imagination. We're ALL going to be judged by our works. Period. The very works James is referring to. The very works Paul is referring to:
5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 who will render to every man according to his works:
7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
10 but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
...by works a man is justified, and not only by faith....
Ky, our redemption is not judged by our works. If we were, we would miss the mark. We are not justified by those works. We are justified by faith.
God will look at the works God ordained for us and we will find if we built with wood, hay and stubble or gold, silver and precious stones. But, our redemption is secured by God's grace through faith.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
NOT OUR WORKS. If you weren't so brain washed you'd have took note of the many times I've iterated that the flesh is not the source of these works.
Wrong. If you (and many others like you that have 'gone to seed' with justification by faith') would take note of the abundant scripture on the subject and deal with it honestly you'd see that works are the very definer of the 'just' and the 'unjust':
15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust. Acts 24:15
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5
Yes! And you quoted it correctly without adding to the gospel! May be hope for you after all. When James wrote 'justified not only by faith', he was in full agreement with Paul:
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8
You need correction, proper instruction. @asterisktom wrote an excellent OP concerning The Bema Seat.
Just as it's not our works, it's also not our faith. There is no good thing in our flesh.
Faith_OF CHRIST
My conclusion is you fully support the Council of Trent and the Roman Catholic doctrine of justification by faith plus works. Thus, you reject the Reformation and Baptist creeds.
I won't sleep over eight hours tonight worrying about your conclusion.
I am sure you won't. It seems you embrace ignorance in this matter.
I embrace the original Protestant view on this matter. You're just another dime a dozen Reformed Church robot:
"The Bible is a plain book. It is intelligible by the people. And they have the right, and are bound to read and interpret it for themselves; so that their faith may rest on the testimony of the Scriptures, and not on that of the Church. Such is the doctrine of Protestants on this subject......"
Perspicuity of the Scriptures. The Right of Private Judgment | Monergism
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Salvation under the law VS salvation under grace.
The original Reformed view is... justification by faith alone, Sola Fide.
The Five Solas are:
Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.
This is the original Protestant view. Your view is the Roman Catholic Church counter position stated at the Council of Trent.
Nope. It's not "under."
We are discussing salvation by the law or salvation by grace.
The God's word tells us that no one is or ever was saved by the law. The law showed our sin and condemned our sin. It ensured that we either pay the penalty for law breaking ourselves or have a penal substitution who paid the penalty for us. Jesus is our penal substitute who saves all whom the Father has given him (that includes Old Testament saints) by grace, through faith.
AustinC: <squawk> Council of Trent! <squawk> Roman Catholic!
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