Featured Re: Does Paul's conversion prove Calvinism's teaching on Irresistible Grace?

I'm responding to this old thread:
Does Paul's conversion prove Calvinism's teaching on Irresistible Grace?

Irresistible grace doesn't mean that God's elect will never rebel, but instead that God's grace is capable of ultimately overcoming their resistance.

While some of God's elect just need a gentle nudge of the Holy Spirit, others need to have their entire lives turned upside down for God to draw them to Himself.

In the cases of Jonah and Paul, God used the means that were necessary for their particular circumstances.

This is from the 1689 London Baptist Confession:

Saving faith is the gift of God's grace, irrespective of one's free-willed efforts to believe or not believe.

No one who honestly desires to be saved will be turned away. If you express concern about your salvation, that's a sign that you are among God's elect.

 

I have no reason to doubt Dr. Flowers' salvation or sincerity, but I think he might be embittered toward the Calvinism that he once held to, thus compromising his objectivity.

Believing that I've been unconditionally elected unto salvation, that saving faith is entirely the gift of God's grace, irrespective of my free-willed efforts to believe or disbelieve, and that I will be preserved in the faith by God's irresistible grace makes me love Jesus more, not less. It also makes me want to humble myself before God and my fellow man more, not less.

I wish that Dr. Flowers was able to see the positive side to Calvinism, the benefits of Calvinism, that John Piper and others seem to experience.

Furthermore, it's misleading when he refers to his own position as "traditionalism," given that Reformed Baptists have existed for hundreds of years, and I would imagine that Calvinism has always existed within the SBC, of which I'm not a member.

 

Is it possible for a Calvinist to find Dr. Flowers to be a more likable person than James White? White seems to act pretty arrogantly for someone whose degree basically came from a diploma mill.

While I believe that White has the more correct theology, correct theology isn't always what's more important:

The most important concept of John Calvin’s theology is God’s grace, that our election unto salvation is completely the unmerited gift of God.

If you truly believe yourself to be among God’s elect, then your attitude should be that of thankfulness and humility, with a desire to serve God and others the rest of your life, no matter how many times you might fail.

 

I think you are missing my point. Based on his Youtube videos that I've seen, White doesn't seem to be a particularly friendly or inviting person, especially when dealing with his theological opponents.

 

I'm sorry if I've misjudged James White, but I'm still not going to validate his doctoral degree.

 

It's just a matter of honesty and integrity. When he uses the title "doctor," it's unfair to people who legitimately earned it.

Are you saying that his doctoral degree was a legitimate degree? I'd be curious to know what made it legitimate.

 

In this video, Dr. Flowers claims that Calvinism is bad, because it might be discouraging to addicts and others who've suffered from rejection in life. I would contend that the opposite is true.

If you've been rejected your whole life, it should be refreshing to learn that God has unconditionally elected you, from before the world began, unto salvation, regardless of any merit on your part, not even the free-willed effort to believe or not believe.

It should be refreshing to learn that, as a member of God's elect, He will never give up on you, no matter how much you stumble in life, and will safely lead you to ultimate salvation.



In another video, Dr. Flowers says that if you are an addict, Calvinism doesn't give you any incentive to take personal responsibility over your addiction. The reality is that a good Calvinist struggling with addiction would ask for God's grace to help him, just as members of AA and NA do.

Also, even if we have no free will in matters of salvation, that doesn't mean we don't have any free will over our addictions. How many Calvinists refuse to do anything to improve their own lives, out of a belief that God is sovereign over everything they do?

 

I forgot to mention that if you truly believe you are among God's elect, you should live in such a way that reflects it. Dr. Flowers' assertion that there is no room for personal responsibility in Calvinism is a gross oversimplification.

I pray for God's grace to accomplish something, so that He may be glorified, and then I follow through, to the best of my ability, to accomplish it.

 

Please look at, for example, everything that Paul Washer has accomplished, with only a master's degree:

I believe it's more honest for Paul Washer to be satisfied with his master's degree than to claim that he has a doctoral degree that he never really earned.

Are you saying that James White deserves to be called "doctor" and that he legitimately earned that distinction?

 

James White's Catholic debate opponents have complained about him not willing to eat lunch with them after a debate or even shake their hand. I guess that makes sense if he doesn't consider Catholics to be fellow Christians.

What I don't like is that he accuses anyone who disagrees with Calvinism, even fellow Baptists and evangelicals, of being Pelagian. Is it right for James White to call Leighton Flowers a Pelagian?

I can't believe that I am defending Leighton Flowers, since I disagree with his theology, but he seems to be the more likable person of the two.