Jeremiah 18: Romans 9 De-Calvinized

Maybe you should refrain from being a Calvinist spokesperson until you learn the position.
Who is that Hippie in your avatar?

 

You are free to post whatever you want, and believe what you want.
Second commandment violations, strange ideas, all find there way here.
Several have expected sooner or later a fifth column was at work and would manifest itself.
Guess it was sooner.

 

???

 

No one goes from claiming to be a Calvinist, to posting the works of Charles Finney overnight.
Your Graceless attacks on John MacArthur, and James White reveal your disingenuous agenda.

 

Kyred, a fifth column is a term for enemies to pretend to be part of the army, they dress up, and play the part, they attempt to infiltrate. Then when they thing it is time they attack.
He just posted the works of Charles Finney,lol
Willis was asking me what is up with this guy,lol
We saw it coming

 

He might have pulled it down,lol.
But I will see if it is still to be found

Hey HD, where did you hide your Charles Finney post???

 

It generally is, if you let it and then accept it (imo most don't)

You wouldn't have made this statement if you'd let the scriptures self interpret:

Let the scriptures self interpret, it's not about Jews only:

23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9

Also notices the plurality of 'vessels', NOT vessel, and the pronouns show Ro 9 is about INDIVIDUALS NOT A NATION:

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy.
18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? Ro 9

29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8
The Objector in Romans 9 is an Arminian

 

You should probably remove the word "humble" from your name...

Paul often references the Old Testament to connect his present thoughts. Inspired by God, he redirects the meaning of the OT passage to broaden it so it fits with Israel being the chosen people from any nation, tribe and tongue who are justified by faith. Paul expands on the idea of the potter and the clay.

 

Just man up and be who you are.
Why did you remove your Finney post to begin with?
Take your stand and go with it.
You want to attack Dr. White, be a man, call the dividing line and offer your "correction".
I will be listening for your call

 

Since all Scripture is inspired of God ( 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ), then it was the Lord who put it into Paul's mind what to write.
Whether or not Paul had Jeremiah 18 in mind is not the point, as I see it.

I agree.
Now, why does Israel, as a nation and to this day, reject God and refuse to obey Him?

Hint:
Because they fail to do so out of a changed heart and a genuine love for Him and His ways.

That said, does God hold us ( as willfully rebellious sinners ) fully responsible to obey Him even though we adamantly will not ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20, Ephesians 4:17-19 ) ?
Yes, He does.
Man is responsible, even though we are dead-set against Him and His ways.

Speaking as a "non-Calvinist" ( People would call me one, even though I've never been brought up in the "Reformed" tradition ), I do not see the Bible insisting that we as men have no will whatsoever;

I see it teaching that man's will, apart from the grace of God, is dead-set and biased against Him and His ways, even from birth ( Psalms 58:3 ).

Yes, it's "free" in the sense that we make autonomous decisions.
No, we are not interested in the least in genuinely obeying God...unless it's to "get the heat off" so we can go back to what we love...sin ( Romans 1:30-32 ).
So, if the definition of "free will" is one that starts out ( or can be made ) neutral towards God, then I reject that definition.

The object lesson for all Bible believers in this, is the nation of Israel itself over the course of its history.
God painstakingly made a covenant with a chosen people, and they, for the most part ) showed what unregenerate men will always do, even though He held up His end of the agreement to the letter.

No new birth = Always backsliding into sin and forgetting about God's goodness....going back to the "vomit" and the pig to its wallowing in the mire, from the Lord's point of view.
No amount of God's "chasing after us" as sinners will ever lead to us finally agreeing with God and truly repenting of our ways until that happens.

 

I agree.

I also disagree with "Arminians", "Molinists", "Semi-Pelagians", "Pelagians", "Thomists" and many others on this issue.
I see nowhere the Bible teaching us as believers that God's will is resistible when it comes to who He bestows the new birth on.

See John 1:13 that declares that a person is born of God...not of blood ( inheritance ), not of the will of the flesh ( our so-called "free will" that is enslaved to sin ) and not of the will of men as a whole.
See James 1:18 that declares that God "begets" or "births" the believer of His own will by the word of truth.
See Matthew 13:10-11 where it is given for a person to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven.
See Philippians 1:29 where it is given in the behalf of Christ not only to believe, but to suffer for His sake.

Things that are given are gifts, and gifts cannot be earned.
Salvation and eternal life cannot be earned...

Nothing that truly comes from the goodness of God can ever be earned or merited.

The most "natural" reading of the passage is, to me, what comes naturally to us as men..
that way that seems right unto a man, but the end of it is death ( Proverbs 14:12, Proverbs 16:25 ).

In other words, we as men think of salvation in terms of merit and de-merit...
We think of getting anything from God as involving "performing an act of contrition";
We've even gone so far as to associate our own gift-giving as involving a type of merit, as well, by reasoning that a gift isn't freely given, but that it is "offered and accepted";
That it is somehow "contractual" in nature.

That is what the "natural man" thinks is right, and even what we as believers have a hard time disassociating ourselves from...
The problem is, that is not true gift-giving and that is not true grace.
The grace of God cannot be merited, in any way, shape or form my friend;
that would violate Romans 11:5-6 and would agree with Romans 4:4.

Eternal live, salvation from the everlasting punishment of God, the faith that carries the believer through all of this life's trials and tribulations, true righteousness and peace with God in our hearts and minds...
It's all a gift, not "of works" lest any man should boast ( Ephesians 2:8-9 ).