1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Man-kind never set foot on the planetary body known as the 'moon', acc to Bible (KJB), Hist. & Sci.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alofa Atu, Jul 25, 2021.

  1. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2,077
    Likes Received:
    81
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    No, it actually depends on the individual person, Seventh-day Adventist or not. I used to think like you do, until I understood what was in scripture, then understood the evidence in the science.

    There are people I have known of, Seventh-day Adventist that work for and at NASA. One was female (yet I will not give her name). I emailed her. She never emailed me back. She may or may not work there anymore. She was involved with children and space camp type programs as far as I remember (this was probably 8 years ago or so now).
     
  2. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2,077
    Likes Received:
    81
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    When you ask about the 'subject', do you mean just aerospace and rocketry in general, or also in the sum total which includes photography, film, lighting, electronics, programming, NASA history, radiometrics, construction, design, physics, mathematics, communications, etc?
     
  3. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2,077
    Likes Received:
    81
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Of course not. The video clip (hammer feather) was only to demonstrate the possibility, in connection with all the other anomalies, and suspect footage, like this one:

    Apollo 15 (it's short, watch carefullly):

     
  4. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I clearly explained the disinterest already. Advancing the notion that some people disbelieving the historicity of the event is evidence against it makes a mockery of the issue. Posting a fake interview with "Kubrick" "confessing" as though it is some sort of evidence against the historicity of the event makes a mockery of the issue. You might as well argue that "Sixty Million Frenchmen Can't Be Wrong." Or is it "Fifty Million…"?
     
  5. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2,077
    Likes Received:
    81
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    You do not seem that 'disinterested' being that you are continuing to post here on this topic, in a negative fashion, simply taking up space (knowing the shortness of these topics). Never the less, as you will.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,828
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I would think so. But I thought I should ask anyway.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,828
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nice video.
     
  8. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Disinterested in further pursuing the topic on your terms. I've explained why. There are too many negatives to wade through. There was no substance to what I checked and such an event would not contradict Scripture.

    I always reserve the right to be interested in direct responses, including those dissing me or mine. "Taking up space." Very clever :Thumbsup, and no less fitting for your own posts. :Wink
     
  9. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2,077
    Likes Received:
    81
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Going back to the alpha particle radiation, I had cited sources that state unequivocally, that a single sheet of paper does not block all alpha particle radiation, but that a half-inch to an inch of paper can be required even on earth to block mid-level range MeV radiation. The dispute was that a single sheet of paper was enough to block all alpha particle radiation, but this is not true, though it will block low-level (range +- 5 MeV) alpha. However, this thread is not about low-level MeV alpha radiation that exists on earth, alone. The topic deals with cislunar and cissolar, and extra (outside coming in) galatic cosmic radiation, which includes high-level alpha radiation.

    "... Alpha particles have a net spin of zero. Due to the mechanism of their production in standard alpha radioactive decay, alpha particles generally have a kinetic energy of about 5 MeV, and a velocity in the vicinity of 4% of the speed of light. (See discussion below for the limits of these figures in alpha decay.) They are a highly ionizing form of particle radiation, and (when resulting from radioactive alpha decay) usually have low penetration depth (stopped by a few centimeters of air, or by the skin).

    However, so-called long range alpha particles from ternary fission are three times as energetic, and penetrate three times as far. The helium nuclei that form 10–12% of cosmic rays are also usually of much higher energy than those produced by nuclear decay processes, and thus may be highly penetrating and able to traverse the human body and also many meters of dense solid shielding, depending on their energy. To a lesser extent, this is also true of very high-energy helium nuclei produced by particle accelerators. ..." - Alpha particle - Wikipedia
    So, what I said was true, as well as what JonC said was true. We were speaking about differing area and differing value (MeV) alpha radiation. JonC, graciously, shared in open forum, and in closed message, that circa range 5 MeV alpha radiation can be blocked by a simple sheet of paper, and this is true. However, this was where my confusion (as I did not immediately recognize what JonC (and thank you again, as your challenge helped me further research and understand what we were both referring to) was referring to, as I thought he was referring to radiation in space, not earth (earth is primarily protected from high value (MeV) alpha radiation, etc because of the multiple (now at least 3) Van Allen belts, electromagnetic fields, etc) was coming from, as I was speaking about radiation in space, not on earth. I was speaking about high MeV radiation, not low level common everyday radiation experienced on earth, which the article above also shows the difference in.

    Even in cosmic radiation, there is higher MeV alpha, even as there is in Ternary Fission,

    "... Such alpha particles are termed "long range alphas" since at their typical energy of 16 MeV, they are at far higher energy than is ever produced by alpha decay. ..."​

    Yet, even 16 MeV is not a maximum.

    This again ties right back to the suit composition and thickness (as also seen here - https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20040087145/downloads/20040087145.pdf consider the SPE (Solar Particle Events) **), as well a the skin exposure (in space, entirely exposed except for the suit, but anything penetrating the suit hits the exposed skin at the same area). The thickness (depth) of the suit and its material makeup (already provided) is not enough to prevent space radiation penetrating to damaging/deadly levels (even if NASA claims otherwise, it is contrary to recorded data, even their own, which is why their recent so called probe is unmanned, and supposedly has recorded even a third Van Allen belt, which is supposed to appear from time to time, if not simply there all the time, just unrecorded on occasions), neither to prevent bremsstrahlung (secondary radiation (deceleration radiation)) from piercing, of which is prevalent upon lunar surface, being entirely exposed to solar rays, cosmic rays, earth shine, CMB, etc.

    Also, while a thickness of 1 inch of 'air' can 'stop' alpha radiation, in high atmosphere (where 'air' is especially 'thin') and especially space, and Van Allen belts range and beyond, where there is no 'air' or 'atmosphere', these measurements become irrelevant, since in a 'vacuum', the resistance and forces which alpha and other particles encounter is reduced to almost nothing, in which distance of travel (from origin, in the vector they move out away from) of said particles can potentially be infinite (though not in practicality, as even in 'space' and 'vacuum' there are plenty of things to collide, interact with though at far greater distances than on earth in atmosphere). This was already demonstrated by physics stack exchange - Can a single piece of paper really block all non-electromagnetic ionizing radiation?

    ** "... The assumption that the February 23, 1956 solar particle event can be represented by the proxy of 10X the September 29, 1989 event leads to a difficult shield design problem. It is clear that designs based on the August 4, 1972 event series will be inadequate to protect the astronaut from this proxy event. Not only are the allowable limits greatly exceeded but also there is a real possibility of mortality in deep space exploration unless a very massive shelter shield is provided. Even then it is likely that the NCRP limits may be exceeded but without serious immediate medical consequence. ..."​

    A helpful study in radiation and Coulomb interactions, in NIEL, with various types of materials can be seen here - https://radhome.gsfc.nasa.gov/radhome/papers/nsrec04_pa2_jun.pdf

    When people speak about the so called ISS, that is well below the Van Allen belts, and still within the earth's upper atmosphere and electromagnetic fields, magnetosphere, etc. It would not record very high level radiations, though it can still be affected by burst of high level radiation from Solar SPE's.

    NASA claims that a 3 year Mars mission, with current 'shielding', would only accrue a circa 1-2 Sv dose of radiation which is ridiculous. Even NASA says,

    "... Mars has no global magnetic field to deflect energetic particles, and its atmosphere is much thinner than Earth’s, so they'll get only minimal protection even on the surface of Mars. ...

    ... The second source of energetic particles is harder to shield. These particles come from galactic cosmic rays, often known as GCRs. They’re particles accelerated to near the speed of light that shoot into our solar system from other stars in the Milky Way or even other galaxies. Like solar particles, galactic cosmic rays are mostly protons. However, some of them are heavier elements, ranging from helium up to the heaviest elements. These more energetic particles can knock apart atoms in the material they strike, such as in the astronaut, the metal walls of a spacecraft, habitat, or vehicle, causing sub-atomic particles to shower into the structure. This secondary radiation, as it is known, can reach a dangerous level." - https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...otect-astronauts-from-space-radiation-on-mars
    How much less the lunar surface with 0 atmosphere, 0 magnetic shielding (except for earth protection).

    The most telling statement of all:

    "... “Ultimately, the solution to radiation will have to be a combination of things,” said Pellish. “Some of the solutions are technology we have already, like hydrogen-rich materials, but some of it will necessarily be cutting edge concepts that we haven’t even thought of yet.” ..." - ibid.​

    Wait. They don't have a final solution yet, and are still in experimental stages? I thought that they were supposed to have all that figured out way back when for the Van Allen and lunar surface, which is more exposed and dangerous than Mars (atmosphere or terrestrial plane) would be.
     
  10. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2,077
    Likes Received:
    81
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The radiation is not merely left to outside (external), on EVA activities, but can come directly into the airlock, and into the landed 'craft' itself, simply by clinging dust which would have (and as NASA says, did) adhered to the suits and tools/equipment, etc.

    The lunar dust is itself radioactive, and once the dust is inside the ship, or airlock, this dust can be breathed into the lungs, nostrils, mouth, gets into the ears, and exposed creases of skin fold, scalp, eyes, etc.

    A calculation is presented by NASA about this:

    "... Defining the entry probability that a grain of dust will come in contact with an astronaut on an EVA and then comparing that data to actual field tests can be used as a means of validating a measure of effectiveness for various dust mitigation technologies and strategies. For example, the probability of dust grain entering the lander post EVA can be defined as Equation (1) (Hyatt et al., 2007).

    P = Pa (1 – PLExt) T PLInt (1)

    where Pa is the probability of a grain in the near-vicinity of an astronaut adhering to a spacesuit, PLExt is the loss probability of a dust grain external to the habitat in regular EVA activity or mitigation process, PLInt is the probability of grain release from the suit internal to the habitat. The variable T is defined as the transmission coefficient of the internally released dust grain from the airlock to the habitable volume of the habitat (i.e., no airlock T = 1) (Hyatt et al., 2007). ..." - https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1606&context=publication

    This would also bring up the serious problem of micrometeorite impacts, and soils, 'fines' or dust which would be thrown upward/outward by those impacts, as well as the destruction to equipment, ship, suits, visors, etc. These micrometeorites fall upon the lunar surface, as NASA says, at a rate:

    "... Micrometeorite flux can be estimated for the surface of the Moon and is dependent on the Earth-Moon alignment. The backside or far side of the Moon experiences a higher rate of impacts, which may result in different characteristic lunar regolith composition. A power law can approximate the average number of micrometeoroid impacts and size distribution. Micrometeoroid sizes range from 30 to 150 μm in radius with masses of 10–10 to 10–8 kg impact the Moon at speeds averaging 7 km/s (Colwell et al., 2007). Lunar soil formation is primarily due to innumerable micrometeorite impacts forming everything from spheres to highly angular and irregular shape silicate glass particles (Taylor et al., 2005). ..." - ibid.
    Such a 'mission' would have been pelted to death by a thousand cuts as the old saying goes, as well as fractured dust getting into all mechanical systems exposed, whether suit and the locking rings, air lock itself, and internal ship quarters.

    Even the ISS experiences holes large enough to have to be patched on the fly, otherwise, air pressure drops dramatically inside, and that is within LEO and below Van Allen protection, and high atmosphere heat, etc.

    What about the certain wheels supposedly used on lunar surface, and the serious abrasive wear that should have occurred:

    "... The American Modularized Equipment Transporter (MET [Apollo 14]): a two-wheeled unpowered cart used smooth rubber tires supported by nitrogen filled inner-tubes and manufactured by Goodyear to make it easier to pull the cart through soft lunar soil and over rocks. ..." - Reinventing the Wheel

    [​IMG]

    Look at that thing. Would you take that to the 'moon'?
    The LRV (Lunar Rover Vehicle), using aluminum wire mesh wheels ( Wheel, Lunar Rover | National Air and Space Museum ), kicked up enormous amounts of dust (as seen on 'film'), spraying out the back and sides (though, if seen on film, looks as it does when it hits an air (atmosphere) wall, and drops immediately, and does not look like 1/6th E(arth)G(ravity) with no atmosphere); but looks like it was filmed in a desert on earth). New design tires are supposed to support ten times that these did, and they didn't even have the design schematics (lost they say), but had to build them again from scratch and looking at photos. - NASA, Goodyear replicate lunar rover tire | collectSPACE

    Even upon landing, the lunar module, should have kicked up clouds of dust everywhere with the thrusters firing nearly until touchdown. Yet, the photos taken, upon EVA of the landing pads, shows, sparkly clean landing pads, and no dust on any of the lunar module at all. Dust should have been still falling, based upon 1/6th G (though with no atmosphere it would fall differently, though affected by lunar surface temp and solar winds striking).
     
    #110 Alofa Atu, Aug 16, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
  11. NewMusic

    NewMusic Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2021
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Alofu Atu,

    Thanks so much for all the bible passages on the very first post! I have known for over 25 years that the moon landing was a hoax, but I have never seen the bible passages presented in this light to corroborate the hoax pulled on Americans and the world. I especially loved your supplying Psalm 115:16. The KJV is right on on that one! I usually read from a few other translation and make note when the KJV is superior and in this instance, it definitely is! Fantastic presentation from the bible.

    For all these other people arguing with you, there is almost no help for them. And the moderator, if I did not know better, is a Mason or part of a cabal of some type. He takes the enemy's position on everything bad for humanity.

    I did not have time to watch all your videos on these past 6 pages, but I think I will notate to watch them this week. I'm familiar with many, and learned about the Van Allen belt a few years ago.

    Yeah, in an aluminum can with no shielding, Neil Armstrong and a couple other guys went through the Van Allen radiation belt. Haha Makes for a good Marvel comic book story, though.

    I got started into photography in my high school days of the 1970's, big time, and developed film and made prints, worked in the field, college newspaper, personal hobby for a long time, etc., so when I first began to learn of the faked moon landing in the mid 1990's and saw the problems that professional photographers had been pointing out since 1969 when the Hasselblad camera that the astronauts were supposed to have taken to the moon presented their photos to the world, had glaring problems:

    1) The images that NASA had released of them on the moon, had absolutely zero stars in the background! None! No stars at all (which to any trained astronomer would have shown the fakery immediately because you cannot fake the alignment of the stars in a studio).

    2) The Apollo 11 sitting on the moon, Neil Armstrong standing on the moon, the flag set up on the moon, and numerous rocks.... all had shadows that did not run parallel with one another -- the shadows intersected because there were multiple light sources.

    The sun, at roughly 93 million miles away, would shine perfectly parallel shadows on every single object on the moon. But this was blatantly blundered.

    3) The sun was supposed to be on one side of the Apollo 11 because you can see the craft and all its detail and insignia on the right side of the photograph very clearly, and yet Armstrong coming down the ladder of the craft should have been a completely dark silhouette since the light was almost completely opposite him. And yet the back of his suit is completely lit up!

    4) In a Hasselblad camera, there are crosshairs in the camera that you can see while looking in the viewfinder. Numerous photos show the crosshairs accidentally stitched together in places on the images that reveal obvious falsification, and stitching images together.


    There used to be, back around the year 2000, countless websites dedicated to showing the falseness of the moon landing with tons of evidence. Tons! But over the last 10 years, Google has eliminated all of them from any search, and there were also numerous websites that showed on camera and interviews with mainstream news, inventors who had invented awesome stuff to solve energy problems that could light up countless light bulbs with a simple mechanism, and another showing how to propel an object using electrical current and a "vortex" such that the object would be propelled at an unbelievable rate by moving into the empty space (vortex) on the current of wave of electricity. All types of awesome inventions back in the 1960's and early 70's. All gone now. Cannot find a single one of them thanks to Google and Bing. All hidden.

    The spherical object that flew into the 2nd Tower on 911 was not an airplane. It's on camera by one of the Network stations (cannot remember if it was CBS or NBC), but their helicopter was about 3 miles out from the Twin Towers filming (one was on fire) when the object came down from the sky and they captured it. IT was not a jet. A brilliant engineer from England brought it to everybody's attention in a set of 3 videos called (Ball theory 911) where he slowed down the film from the news company and traced its speed, and said it was too slow to be a jet, and was clearly not a propeller plane, and to make a long story short, said he believe the Americans had been working on anti-gravity for many years and that that ship was a bomb that was remote controlled into the 2nd tower.

    When he said that, I immediately thought about the inventor I had seen in one of those filmed interviews of the late 1960's or early 70's where the guy demonstrated the vortex principle.

    Anyway, so great of you to share all this stuff! And such tenacity!

    Keep it up!
     
  12. NewMusic

    NewMusic Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2021
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Oh, regarding Stanley Kubrick. He absolutely was the one used to fake it. And that interview was not a fake.

    There used to be on Youtube, the 2 videos that I'm about to give links to, but again Google removed them. about 10 years ago.

    The presenter of the videos gives his own opinion about some things that I do not agree with, but nevertheless, the overall presentations are filled with facts and a demonstration of how Kubrick was attempting to tell the world how he had been called upon to fake the Moon landing in his film "The Shining", which in many places deviated from the Stephen King book, in such ways that Stephen King knew that Kubrick was telling him that he, Kubrick, was telling a different story through King's novel.

    Kubrick used at that time, the 3M Scotchgard screen that he had used in filming 2001 A Space Odyssey a couple years earlier, which he used to fake the moon filming in a studio. These films go into great detail. Amazing.

    Highly recommended. Get both videos:

    Kubrick's Odyssey I—watch with a membership at: gaia.com/sacredmysteries

    Beyond the Infinite - Kubrick's Odyssey II—watch with a membership at: gaia.com/sacredmysteries

    Both those links come from here:

    Jay Weidner – Author * Filmmaker
     
Loading...