The NT does not teach Christ to return soon.

[Martin Marprelate]

No, He was referring to more than the Decalogue. Just look at the rest of the context.

On the contrary, He goes on to speak of murder, adultery and taking the Lord's name in vain. Then he speaks of love for neighbour which, as Paul points out, is the fulfillment of the second table of the Commandments (Romans 13:8-10).

And your Mark reference misses the point. His comments there, like in the Sermon on the Mount, show the deeper intent of the commandments. But there was no abrogation given then. One need only to read certain Acts passages to see that dietary laws were still very much kept. Simon Peter needed a vision lesson to finally understand. So, no, the abrogation did not happen during His earthly mission and, yes, the Laws and Commandments were all together.

How can He be more clear? '"Are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?" Thus he declared all foods clean.' That Simon Peter needed to be reminded of this is true, but that too occurred well before AD 70.

 

[MB]

.

The prophecy of the Sun turning dark with the Moon turning blood red has not happened in history yet. That is mentioned 11 times in Scripture.

You've never seen a red moon. I've seen two. Maybe it just depends on where you are on the Earth at the time.
MB

 

[asterisktom]

On the contrary, He goes on to speak of murder, adultery and taking the Lord's name in vain. Then he speaks of love for neighbour which, as Paul points out, is the fulfillment of the second table of the Commandments (Romans 13:8-10).

How can He be more clear? '"Are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?" Thus he declared all foods clean.' That Simon Peter needed to be reminded of this is true, but that too occurred well before AD 70.

First of all, this is an after-the-fact comment of Mark. It was not an abrogation at the time. No one is denying what Christ said.

As to your first comment, I am not saying that there is no reference to the Decalogue. Most of it is, in fact, related to it. But other commandments cited are from Deut. 24 and elsewhere. Also, Jesus referred to the breaking of "one of these least commandments". Would you characterize any of those Ten Commandments "least"?

Here, as elsewhere in Scripture, the laws and commandments of the Old Covenant stand and fall together. And they were all abrogated together. At the same time the New Heaven and New Earth - a covenantal phrase - was ushered in.

 

[37818]

.

You've never seen a red moon. I've seen two. Maybe it just depends on where you are on the Earth at the time.
MB

And at that same time the light of the Sun is being blocked too. Has not yet happened. Ezekiel 32:7 is one of the eleven prophecies of this one event.

 

[MB]

And at that same time the light of the Sun is being blocked too. Has not yet happened. Ezekiel 32:7 is one of the eleven prophecies of this one event.

Solar eclipse.

 

[robycop3]

Smoke & dust from fires, windstorms, and volcanic activity can dim the sunlight reaching us, & make the moon appear red. Remember, there'll be a great cosmic disturbance immediately before Jesus' return.

 

[asterisktom]

And at that same time the light of the Sun is being blocked too. Has not yet happened.

Also the time when " the LORD rides on a swift cloud, and will come into Egypt;" apparently has not happened yet. Nor the "hills melting like wax", nor the "stars falling from the sky".

We must either say this has not happened or just recognize that God uses metaphors.

And if metaphors were used in the OT why Oh why it so hard to recognize they are also used in the NT?

 

[37818]

Solar eclipse.

I don't think so.
Matthew 24:29, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: . . ." And:
Revelation 6:12-17, ". . . the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; . . . For the great day of his wrath is come; . . ." As one event.

 

[kyredneck]

A thief in the night comes SUDDENLY, not always invisibly.

But the kingdom of God does indeed come invisibly:

20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. Lu 17

You can't see it with the eye or touch it with the hand:

18 For ye are not come unto a mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
22 but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels, Heb 12

It is not of this world, Christ rules from the heavenly Jerusalem, now:

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jn 18

 

[kyredneck]

Then he speaks of love for neighbour which, as Paul points out, is the fulfillment of the second table of the Commandments (Romans 13:8-10).

You better read it again:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

It's the whole enchilada.

 

[kyredneck]

the New Heaven and New Earth - a covenantal phrase

Excellent articulation.

The saints are now new creatures in the new heaven and new earth of the new covenant where 'neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature'.

To the disobedient Jews who thought the old was good:

19 And I will break the pride of your power: and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass; Lev 26

23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. Dt 28

 

[37818]

Also the time when " the LORD rides on a swift cloud, and will come into Egypt;" apparently has not happened yet. Nor the "hills melting like wax", nor the "stars falling from the sky".

Really?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

First of all, this is an after-the-fact comment of Mark. It was not an abrogation at the time. No one is denying what Christ said.

With respect, denying what Christ said is exactly what you are doing.

As to your first comment, I am not saying that there is no reference to the Decalogue. Most of it is, in fact, related to it. But other commandments cited are from Deut. 24 and elsewhere. Also, Jesus referred to the breaking of "one of these least commandments". Would you characterize any of those Ten Commandments "least"?

Do you nt see that our Lord takes divorce and places it squarely at the 7th Commandment.

Here, as elsewhere in Scripture, the laws and commandments of the Old Covenant stand and fall together. And they were all abrogated together. At the same time the New Heaven and New Earth - a covenantal phrase - was ushered in.

The Moral Law (summarized in the Decalogue) is distinguished from the rest of the Mosaic law all over the Bible, starting with Deuteronomy 5:22.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You better read it again:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

It's the whole enchilada.

He left out bearing false witness. But yes, this is what's so wonderful about the Decalogue; all those 'Thou shalt not's that unconverted people find so restricting are actually all about love.

 

[robycop3]

Also the time when " the LORD rides on a swift cloud, and will come into Egypt;" apparently has not happened yet. Nor the "hills melting like wax", nor the "stars falling from the sky".

We must either say this has not happened or just recognize that God uses metaphors.

And if metaphors were used in the OT why Oh why it so hard to recognize they are also used in the NT?

Yes, Egypt went from being a great, rich, & wise nation to becoming a 3rd world rat hole, ruled by others until fairly recently. And we don't know just when the Lord went to Egypt.

We also see in that chapter that the land of Judah will become a terror to Egypt. And that occurred after their last battle After that, whenever a Jew rattled his Uzi, many Egyptians quaked in fear. However, that time is past, as Egypt & Israel have signed several economic agreements in the last few years.

And God is gonna bless Egypt, Assyria(whoever they may be today) & Israel together, with a highway connecting all three.

Both the hills melting & a meteor shower are referring to specific events. there'll be a great meteor shower immediately before Jesus' return according to His own words in Matt. 24.

 

[asterisktom]

Excellent articulation.

The saints are now new creatures in the new heaven and new earth of the new covenant where 'neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature'.

To the disobedient Jews who thought the old was good:

19 And I will break the pride of your power: and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass; Lev 26

23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. Dt 28

A good picture of this coming of the New Covenant and the clear end of the Old is Isa. 66:

3“He who slaughters an ox is like one who kills a man;
he who sacrifices a lamb, like one who breaks a dog’s neck;
he who presents a grain offering, like one who offers pig’s blood;
he who makes a memorial offering of frankincense, like one who blesses an idol.
These have chosen their own ways,
and their soul delights in their abominations;
4I also will choose harsh treatment for them
and bring their fears upon them,
because when I called, no one answered,
when I spoke, they did not listen;
but they did what was evil in my eyes
and chose that in which I did not delight.”

 

[kyredneck]

He left out bearing false witness.

No he didn't, you better read it again:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

Even the Rabbinism of Christ's day had condensed the law to it's simplest terms:

“…Rabbinism is never weary of quoting as one of the characteristic sayings of its greatest teacher, Hillel (who, of course, lived before this time), that he had summed up the Law, in briefest compass, in these words: ‘What is hateful to thee, that do not to another. This is the whole Law; the rest is only its explanation…..” Life & Times - Edersheim

...as did Christ with the law AND the prophets:

12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7

 

[MB]

I don't think so.
Matthew 24:29, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: . . ." And:
Revelation 6:12-17, ". . . the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; . . . For the great day of his wrath is come; . . ." As one event.

So you don't really know because you only think so?. The Bible does not say the sun will be blotted out completely. Every time there is a solar eclipse The sun is darkened. Every time there is a blood moon it's predictable. It's cause is by pollutants in the atmosphere. Where I live we have some of the worst pollution in our air simply because the atmosphere is so thin. Here we have to deal pollutant warnings which can effect everyone. In fire season we have some of the most beautiful sunsets because of the California fires. All the smoke seems to blow up here.
MB

 

[37818]

So you don't really know because you only think so?. The Bible does not say the sun will be blotted out completely. Every time there is a solar eclipse The sun is darkened. Every time there is a blood moon it's predictable. It's cause is by pollutants in the atmosphere. Where I live we have some of the worst pollution in our air simply because the atmosphere is so thin. Here we have to deal pollutant warnings which can effect everyone. In fire season we have some of the most beautiful sunsets because of the California fires. All the smoke seems to blow up here.
MB

Your argument is irrelevant to Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:12 referring to one event.

 

[kyredneck]

OK. So how does that mean Christ lied about coming soon?

???

Forty years not soon enough for you?