Has ALL Humanity Been Given a Measure of Faith?

AustinC · Oct 8, 2021

MB wrote:
There is no special gift of faith we all have been dealt a measure of faithand this faith can grow by hearing the word of God. Faith is nothing more than simply hoping Christ will save us.

We are all dealt a measure of faith to begin with.

The above statement is an assertion of universality about humans that the Bible does not confirm. Instead, the assertion comes from the philosophy of man and is then forced upon God as though it were a fact.

Is MB's assertion supported in the Bible or does the Bible support something else? If something else, what does the Bible support about faith and when someone receives faith?

Yeshua1 · Oct 8, 2021

AustinC said:
The above statement is an assertion of universality about humans that the Bible does not confirm. Instead, the assertion comes from the philosophy of man and is then forced upon God as though it were a fact.

Is MB's assertion supported in the Bible or does the Bible support something else? If something else, what does the Bible support about faith and when someone receives faith?

Romans 12:3 refers to those who are now saved and redeemed, not to all in general, based upon the context!

37818 · Oct 8, 2021

Has ALL Humanity Been Given a Measure of Faith?

God gives everyone a measure of faith through His creation, as it is written, Romans 10:17-18, ". . . faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . . ." Psalms 19:4.

Christian epistemology. True knowledge comes from God, Proverbs 1:7, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: . . ."

Van · Oct 8, 2021

The "measure of faith" refers not to an individuals faith in Christ, but the believers sphere of ministry within the body of Christ. As members we have a job to do. Our "measure of faith" actually refers to our allotted portion of the body's ministry of faith. Once again we see a vague and ambiguous verse being said to support the speculation of men, the bogus "gift of faith."

Rather than accept a bogus view ripped out of context, just read the chapter, folks, the actual meaning is crystal.

Yeshua1 · Oct 8, 2021

Van said:
The "measure of faith" refers not to an individuals faith in Christ, but the believers sphere of ministry within the body of Christ. As members we have a job to do. Our "measure of faith" actually refers to our allotted portion of the body's ministry of faith. Once again we see a vague and ambiguous verse being said to support the speculation of men, the bogus "gift of faith."

Rather than accept a bogus view ripped out of context, just read the chapter, folks, the actual meaning is crystal.

indeed, refers to each saved person using the God given level of faith while exercising their spiritual gifts for him!

tyndale1946 · Oct 8, 2021

Van said:
The "measure of faith" refers not to an individuals faith in Christ, but the believers sphere of ministry within the body of Christ. As members we have a job to do. Our "measure of faith" actually refers to our allotted portion of the body's ministry of faith. Once again we see a vague and ambiguous verse being said to support the speculation of men, the bogus "gift of faith."

Rather than accept a bogus view ripped out of context, just read the chapter, folks, the actual meaning is crystal.

If ALL men have a measure of faith, then are you calling Paul a liar that says ALL men do not?... Brother Glen

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

I'm not referring to you Van I'm answer the OP

JonC · Oct 8, 2021

I think it depends on what we mean by "faith". All men have a measure of faith (or belief) in (or about) God. Scripture tells us that man exchanges this faith. I also think this can explain the various religions. This type of faith is rejected, otherwise I believe it would lead to a fuller measure.

But if we are talking about a faith "unto sallvation" (remembering even demons believe) then I would say this is supernatural.

AustinC · Oct 8, 2021

37818 said:
Has ALL Humanity Been Given a Measure of Faith?

God gives everyone a measure of faith through His creation, as it is written, Romans 10:17-18, ". . . faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . . ." Psalms 19:4.

Christian epistemology. True knowledge comes from God, Proverbs 1:7, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: . . ."

For clarification...are you agreeing that God has given all humans a measure of faith, at conception/birth? Humans have faith innately within themselves as a gracious part of their being created?

Revmitchell · Oct 8, 2021

Scripture is clear. Faith in Gd comes from hearing the word of God. It’s not irresistible and is available to anyone. Romans 10:13-17

AustinC · Oct 8, 2021

Revmitchell said:
Scripture is clear. Faith in Gd comes from hearing the word of God. It’s not irresistible and is available to anyone. Romans 10:13-17

For clarification, are you saying it isn't innate, but God gives it to all when they hear the voice (word) of God?

AustinC · Oct 8, 2021

Van said:
The "measure of faith" refers not to an individuals faith in Christ, but the believers sphere of ministry within the body of Christ. As members we have a job to do. Our "measure of faith" actually refers to our allotted portion of the body's ministry of faith. Once again we see a vague and ambiguous verse being said to support the speculation of men, the bogus "gift of faith."

Rather than accept a bogus view ripped out of context, just read the chapter, folks, the actual meaning is crystal.

Has all humanity been given faith? It seems you are saying no. It seems you are saying that faith is restricted to the Christian who believes. Is this accurate or am I misunderstanding your position?

AustinC · Oct 8, 2021

JonC said:
I think it depends on what we mean by "faith". All men have a measure of faith (or belief) in (or about) God. Scripture tells us that man exchanges this faith. I also think this can explain the various religions. This type of faith is rejected, otherwise I believe it would lead to a fuller measure.

But if we are talking about a faith "unto sallvation" (remembering even demons believe) then I would say this is supernatural.

Do you have scripture for the bolded statement you made?

JonC · Oct 8, 2021

AustinC said:
Do you have scripture for the bolded statement you made?

Yes (sorry, I should have posted references).

Romans 1:19–23: because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

AustinC · Oct 8, 2021

JonC said:
Yes (sorry, I should have posted references).

Romans 1:19–23: because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Jon, how do you see this passage as presenting faith within all humanity?

I can see that all humanity can know that God exists by observing nature itself and that humans will exchange God for their own created things, but I am not seeing faith expressed in all humanity from this passage. I will defer to you to explain where I am misunderstanding your point.

JonC · Oct 8, 2021

AustinC said:
Jon, how do you see this passage as presenting faith within all humanity?

I can see that all humanity can know that God exists by observing nature itself and that humans will exchange God for their own created things, but I am not seeing faith expressed in all humanity from this passage. I will defer to you to explain where I am misunderstanding your point.

I see it as indicating that God has made Himself known to all man so that they are without excuse. But all men rebel against this knowledge.

I believe that you and I agree about faith. This is why I noted that the answer depends on how we define faith (or belief).

All men are on an equal footing because we have all rebelled against what God has made known to us. Saving faith, however, is the work of God in the lives of those who will believe.

I know I may not be clear enough, but I hope that at least helped to clarify my post.

SovereignGrace · Oct 8, 2021

Is MB's assertion supported in the Bible

No

AustinC · Oct 8, 2021

JonC said:
I see it as indicating that God has made Himself known to all man so that they are without excuse. But all men rebel against this knowledge.

I believe that you and I agree about faith. This is why I noted that the answer depends on how we define faith (or belief).

All men are on an equal footing because we have all rebelled against what God has made known to us. Saving faith, however, is the work of God in the lives of those who will believe.

I know I may not be clear enough, but I hope that at least helped to clarify my post.

Thanks Jon I understand what you are saying from Romans 1. I appreciate your clarification.

SavedByGrace · Oct 8, 2021

Here we have yet another teaching of the "reformed", that is not what the Bible actually says. If, as it is claimed, that God gives saving faith only to the elect, then passages like 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, make God to be unjust. Here Paul clearly says:

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power"

God will punish those who do not "know Him", and "disobey the Gospel" of salvation.

How can God be just in doing so, when it is He who, according to reformed teaching, withholds saving faith from them in the first place, so that they cannot know or obey Him?

In Hebrews chapters 3 and 4, we are told that the children of Israel could not enter God's Rest, because of their disobedience, and lack of faith. Again, if it is God who did not give them this gift of faith/obedience, how can God punish them for their lack of faith faith/obedience, since He did not give them it in the first place?

In passages like Joshua 24:15, people are told to "choose" (have faith), between God and the devil. How can they be expected to "choose" God, unless they are able to?

This is a false teaching.

AustinC · Oct 8, 2021

SavedByGrace said:
Here we have yet another teaching of the "reformed", that is not what the Bible actually says. If, as it is claimed, that God gives saving faith only to the elect, then passages like 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, make God to be unjust. Here Paul clearly says:

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power"

God will punish those who do not "know Him", and "disobey the Gospel" of salvation.

How can God be just in doing so, when it is He who, according to reformed teaching, withholds saving faith from them in the first place, so that they cannot know or obey Him?

In Hebrews chapters 3 and 4, we are told that the children of Israel could not enter God's Rest, because of their disobedience, and lack of faith. Again, if it is God who did not give them this gift of faith/obedience, how can God punish them for their lack of faith faith/obedience, since He did not give them it in the first place?

In passages like Joshua 24:15, people are told to "choose" (have faith), between God and the devil. How can they be expected to "choose" God, unless they are able to?

This is a false teaching.

Does this mean you think faith is innate in every human from birth? This is the question to answer from this thread.

Dave G · Oct 8, 2021

AustinC said:
Is MB's assertion supported in the Bible or does the Bible support something else? If something else, what does the Bible support about faith and when someone receives faith?

Has ALL Humanity Been Given a Measure of Faith?

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