SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
not taught in way in the Bible. show just one verse that says this?
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Has ALL Humanity Been Given a Measure of Faith?
- Thread starter AustinC
- Start date
not taught in way in the Bible. show just one verse that says this?
Yet another change the subject post. Are we given an area of ministry, our measure of faith? Yes - we are all ambassadors of Christ with the ministry of reconciliation. Some of us, like me, cleaned the church bathrooms, swept floors, vacuumed rugs, etc.
Others folded hand-outs or operated booths.
I have never, ever, said that people are born with faith at all, let alone saving faith. I have no idea where you came up with that, but it's not from me.
We agree that God must speak and quicken the heart before a human has faith to believe. In Romans 10 Paul explains that the Jews had heard the message of the gospel. This is universal for all to whom the gospel is preached. But, they had not heard the voice of God when that gospel was preached. Those who did hear the voice of God, did believe. Paul is example #1.
Are we (born anew believers) given an area of ministry, our measure of faith? Yes - we are all ambassadors of Christ with the ministry of reconciliation. Some of us, like me, cleaned the church bathrooms, swept floors, vacuumed rugs, etc. Others folded hand-outs or operated booths. A dear friend and mentor of mine recently went home to the open arms of Christ - he was a prayer warrior. And he taught others that prayer was not only our duty but our joy. When we share our measure or portion, we expand the ministry, honor God, and glorify His name...
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
It appears from your reasoning on this thread is that you believe that God gives saving faith only to the elect who then are able to call on Him for salvation?
Any verses from the Bible teaching this?
You do realize I asked a question, based upon what MB wrote...don't you?
It is literally a question. It is not an assertion.
Thank you for showing that I did not make any statement.
We agree, faith is not innate in anyone.
The question then is: If faith is not from us, where is it from and when is it given?
I have asked where faith comes from. Has God given faith to all humans at birth or is their some other point in which God gives faith? The point of this thread is not for me to state what I believe, but for me to see and understand the reasoning of others. I have only asked clarifying questions to understand the flow of a person's reasoning.
If faith is innate, wouldn't David had said so?... Brother Glen
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
If faith is innate, wouldn't David had said so?... Brother Glen
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Oh and btw... This is how WE ALL are born into this world!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
If faith is innate, wouldn't David had said so?... Brother Glen
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
what has this verse from Psalm 51, have to do with whether humans are born with innate faith? David is speaking about SIN, and not faith!
This is a legitimate question. While Ps51 points to all being born in iniquity, does it deny faith being innate in every human?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
no, nothing to do with innate faith whatsoever!
So, when is faith given, since you agree it is not innate in the human being?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Dave G
Well-Known Member
It says when faith comes and how it comes.
" How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 and how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. "
In verse 14 the question is asked, "how can someone call on Him in whom they have not believed?"
In verse 15, "How shall they preach, except they be sent?"
In verse 16, It concludes with, " They have not all obeyed the Gospel."
In verse 17, I see that faith comes by hearing.
But how does hearing come?
By the word of God.
Verse 18 asks the question, "Have they not all heard?"
Yes.
19, "did not Israel know?".
Yes.
But the overall answer is in verse 20...
"I was found of them who sought me not, I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me."
There it is...God revealed Himself to them.
So...
How can faith come to someone who hears the word of God, but does not believe it ( Hebrews 4:2 )?
How can it be present in someone and yet that person not believe?
It cannot.
Why?
Because it's a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ).
Also, according to the Scriptures, who hears and does not hear?
John 8:43-47.
Those that are "of God" ( God's people, or His "elect" ) hear His words.
" He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:47 ).
No one else does.
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
It says when faith comes and how it comes.
" How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 and how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. "
In verse 17, I see that faith comes by hearing.
But how does hearing come?
By the word of God.
Here's the problem, as I see it:
How can faith come to someone who hears the word of God, but does not believe it ( Hebrews 4:2 )?
How can it be present in someone and yet that person not believe?
It cannot.
Why?
Because it's a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ).
Also, according to the Scriptures, who hears and does not hear?
John 8:43-47.
Those that are "of God" hear His words.
" He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:47 ).
No one else does.
In the Greek of Ephesians 2.8 salvation can be the gift and not necessarily faith