Has ALL Humanity Been Given a Measure of Faith?

[Dave G]

@SavedByGrace :

So, according to Romans 10:8-10, I see that the word of God was nigh ( near to ) the believers at Rome, and that the reason they believed in their heart and confessed with their mouth the Lord Jesus, was because of what is revealed to them before...in Romans 8 and Romans 9.

They were foreknown, predestinated, "called", justified and glorified ( Romans 8:28-30 ).
They were vessels of mercy, and not vessels of wrath ( Romans 9:22-24 ).

They were "the called" according to His purpose.

 

[Dave G]

In the Greek of Ephesians 2.8 salvation can be the gift and not necessarily faith

I've seen it explained either way.
But if anyone were to ask me, I see that faith is the gift that is "not of yourselves".

That's why I don't believe that true faith has been given to all of humanity...
Or all of humanity would believe God's words when they hear them.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I've seen it explained either way.
But if anyone were to ask me, I see that faith is the gift that is "not of yourselves".

That's why I don't believe that true faith has been given to all of humanity...
Or all of humanity would believe God's words when they hear them.

So, if it can have either interpretation then one can't really use it for a doctrinal basis

 

[SavedByGrace]

@SavedByGrace :

So, according to Romans 10:8-10, I see that the word of God was nigh ( near to ) the believers at Rome, and that the reason they believed in their heart and confessed with their mouth the Lord Jesus, was because of what is revealed to them before...in Romans 8 and Romans 9.

They were foreknown, predestinated, "called", justified and glorified ( Romans 8:28-30 ).
They were vessels of mercy, and not vessels of wrath ( Romans 9:22-24 ).

They were "the called" according to His purpose.

The Bible says that many are called, which cannot be limited to the elect who are the few!

 

[Dave G]

So, if it can have either interpretation then one can't really use it for a doctrinal basis

I believe that it says it the way that I've described, and I can indeed use it for a doctrinal basis...
since I see that it agrees with passages like Hebrews 12:2 ( Jesus Christ the Author and Finisher of our faith ), Hebrews 11:1 ( Faith is the substance of and evidence of ), and Galatians 2:16-20 ( it is the faith "of" Jesus Christ. ).

Those three ( and there are others ) tell me where my faith ( my ability to hear and believe God's words ) came from...Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:29 also tells me that it was given to me in the behalf of Christ, to believe and to suffer for His sake.

Therefore, outside of God's grace, I would not have faith and I would not believe on Jesus Christ.
I would think the preaching of the cross was foolishness, and not the power of God per 1 Corinthians 1:18.

I would be one of the ones that is perishing, and not one of the ones who is saved, my friend.

The Bible says that many are called, which cannot be limited to the elect who are the few!

I see that as being addressed to the Jews in the context of the parable of the wedding ( Matthew 22:1-14 )...

In that, many of Israel are called ( outwardly ), but few are chosen...
and agrees with what I see Romans 9:27-29 and Romans 11:13-32 saying;

That there is a remnant being called out of Israel, just as there is a remnant being called out of all the nations, languages and tribes.
Again, vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath.

Those that have true faith, and those that do not.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Again, vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath

I have said this before, if the "vessels of wrath" are on their way to eternal destruction, then why would God be bearing with them with much longsuffering? The ONLY conclusion is so that they too might repent and believe, and become "vessels of mercy". there is no other way to understand what Paul is saying.

 

[AustinC]

what saith Romans chapter10?

What does it say? Does it tell you exactly when faith is given to a human? If so, when is that time? Is it when a person hears the word of God? That's what Romans 10 tells us.

Romans 10:3-17 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

 

[Dave G]

I have said this before, if the "vessels of wrath" are on their way to eternal destruction, then why would God be bearing with them with much longsuffering?

As I have said this before, the Bible itself answers that, SBG:

" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." ( 2 Peter 3:8-10 ).

He is long-suffering towards His people, not willing that any of them should perish, but that they all should come to repentance.
Also, He is patient... waiting for the precious fruit of the earth, His people from all generations:

" Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain." ( James 5:7 ).

 

[Dave G]

The ONLY conclusion is so that they too might repent and believe, and become "vessels of mercy".

I'm sorry but I disagree, and to me that's not the only conclusion...
as believers were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ) and His works were finished *from the foundation of the world ( Hebrews 4:3 ).

*From:
" indicating the date at which something was created.

• a document dating from the thirteenth century"

His work is done, and His people's names are already written in the Book of Life *from the foundation of the world ( Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8 ).
To me, there is no "chance" in God's purposes according to election, nor in any other.

Also, according to Romans 9:22-24, I see that one does not go from being a vessel of wrath ( lost ) to being a vessel of mercy ( saved );
they are made as either one or the other by God.

The vessels of mercy were "afore" prepared to glory, while the vessels of wrath were "fitted" to their destruction.

there is no other way to understand what Paul is saying.

Yes, there is another way.
There's how you understand and believe the Scriptures, and how I understand and believe them.

If there weren't another way, we wouldn't be in disagreement over it.

 

[37818]

*From:
" indicating the date at which something was created.

Can be also refer to any time afterwards.
Luke 11:50-51, ". . .
That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: . . ."
Hebrews 9:25-26, ". . . Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. . . ."

 

[Yeshua1]

you are speaking in riddles! on the one hand you say that people are born with saving faith, and on the other, that it does come from hearing of the Word of God, which is external! You cannot have it both ways, as one excludes the other.

Yes, the sinner is first convicted by the preaching of the Gospel Message, as in Acts 2:27, when those that heard Peter preach, were "cut to the heart", by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus says in John 16:8. Then they can call upon the Lord in faith, to get saved.

Lost sinners cannot receive the Gospel truth unless regenerated by the Holy Spirit first!

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm sorry but I disagree, and to me that's not the only conclusion...
as believers were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ) and His works were finished *from the foundation of the world ( Hebrews 4:3 ).

*From:
" indicating the date at which something was created.

• a document dating from the thirteenth century"

His work is done, and His people's names are already written in the Book of Life *from the foundation of the world ( Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8 ).
To me, there is no "chance" in God's purposes according to election, nor in any other.

Also, according to Romans 9:22-24, I see that one does not go from being a vessel of wrath ( lost ) to being a vessel of mercy ( saved );
they are made as either one or the other by God.

The vessels of mercy were "afore" prepared to glory, while the vessels of wrath were "fitted" to their destruction.
Yes, there is another way.
There's how you understand and believe the Scriptures, and how I understand and believe them.

If there weren't another way, we wouldn't be in disagreement over it.

Paul addresses this on his discourse in Romans about vessels of glory and other for ruination!

 

[Yeshua1]

It appears from your reasoning on this thread is that you believe that God gives saving faith only to the elect who then are able to call on Him for salvation?

Any verses from the Bible teaching this?

All the way thru from Genesis to Revelation!

 

[Yeshua1]

The Bible says that many are called, which cannot be limited to the elect who are the few!

Few are chosen though!

 

[MB]

For the measure of faith. all men can deny what scripture clearly states.
Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Most who do not believe it are denying scripture
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

For the measure of faith. all men can deny what scripture clearly states.
Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Most who do not believe it are denying scripture
MB

Paul is speaking to those who are saved there!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Lost sinners cannot receive the Gospel truth unless regenerated by the Holy Spirit first!

WRONG! Regeneration, which is another term for born-again, as is very clear from Titus 3:5, is what takes place UPON the sinner repenting and believing. What you are suggesting is IMPOSSIBLE!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Few are chosen though!

WHY would God call MANY, and then choose FEW? this is very UNFAIR.

 

[SavedByGrace]

All the way thru from Genesis to Revelation!

what version do you use?

 

[AustinC]

WHY would God call MANY, and then choose FEW? this is very UNFAIR.

Really...you think it is unfair to call everyone and choose only some? Do you not know how radically corrupt we all are?
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Do you REALLY want fair? If you do, then prepare to spend eternity in hell because that is fair and just.
I suspect you don't want fairness. You want mercy and in that area God tells us this:
For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
~ Romans 9:15-16