Saved by Grace Alone, Justified by Faith Alone

[kyredneck]

Galatians 2:15-16 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

K. No prob. I totally believe that. You're kinda 'preaching to the choir' here. What's your point?

 

[AustinC]

Salvation without the sinner first repenting of their personal sins is impossible. This is what the Bible actually says

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:3

So...the chicken must first peck the correct button before the feed will be freely dispensed?

Second, your statement tells us (and more importantly, God) that it is impossible for God to save until a human acts in a certain way, this being that a human must repent before God can save.
How do you reconcile Ephesians 2:4-5 in your scheme of salvation?

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

We were dead. God chose to make us alive. God saved us by grace.

It's all right there. Tell me how you get around this to proclaim your scheme to be true. Do you just ignore it and claim a different sentence you prefer trumps Ephesians 2:4-5?
Do you not acknowledge that Jesus is telling the chosen people to repent in Luke 13:3? Do you force a universal method of salvation upon that verse? I think kyredneck has sufficiently addressed you on this verse.

 

[Van]

It is interesting, first, that you don't address me directly. Second, you seem to ignore the key word in the verse, which is the English word...by.
You have been saved...by...grace.
The salvation comes by grace alone.
Notice in the verses prior to verse 8 of Ephesians 2 that verse 5 tells us even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
You cannot ignore that it was while we were still dead in sin that God made us alive and saved us by grace. It whacks us in the face. Don’t ignore this verse, Van.
If, as you and others claim, we must have faith first, then that faith must be present when we are still dead in our sins. It must come from our innate selves. If faith then comes from us and not from God, then we can boast in our own faith, which chose the correct God amongst many other gods. Therefore, going back to verse 8, faith cannot come before grace or before salvation. Why? Because we are given no opportunity to boast.

Van, it is all right there in the text of scripture. Address what I am saying. Don’t talk to anyone else or claim an imaginary Calvin. It's me who is talking and it is me who is explaining the text of scripture to you. Speak directly to me.

Obviously the rule to address the topic and not the poster escaped someone.
The key word ignored is not "by" but "through" even if put in all caps.
Is the fact we are saved by grace in dispute? Nope so an effort to change the subject.
Is the fact at issue that we were dead in our trespasses when God by grace saved us? Nope.
What is in dispute is the false claim of Calvinism that we are not saved through or by reason of faith.
Does faith "come from our innate selves?" Nope We put our faith in God's revealed truth, that God gave His divinely unique Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Scripture tells us salvation is the gift, thus we cannot boast because it is from God. So yet another false claim.

Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1Ti 1:16
Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Does Calvinism claim the promise is not given to those who believe? We are to believe for (or in order to obtain) eternal life.

 

[SavedByGrace]

John Calvin

Even though we have taught in part how to possess Christ, and how through it we enjoy his benefits, this would still remain obscure if we did not add an explanation of the effects we feel. With good reason, the sum of the gospel is held to consist in repentance and the forgiveness of sins (Luke 24:47; Acts 5:31). Any discussion of faith, therefore, that omitted these two topics would be barren and mutilated and well–nigh useless…Surely no one can embrace the grace of the gospel without betaking himself from the errors of his past life into the right way, and applying his whole effort to the practice of repentance. Can true repentance stand apart from faith? Not at all. But even though they cannot be separated, they ought to be distinguished (John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion. Found in The Library of Christian Classics (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1960), Volume XIX, Book III, Chapters 1, 5, pp. 592-593, 597).

Thomas Watson

Repentance is of such importance that there is no being saved without it…It is a great duty incumbent upon Christians solemnly to repent and turn unto God…That religion which is not built upon this foundation must needs fall to the ground. Repentance is a grace required under the gospel. Some think it legal; but the first sermon that Christ preached, indeed, the first word of his sermon, was ‘Repent’ (Matt. 4.17). And his farewell that he left when he was going to ascend was that ‘repentance should be preached in his name’ (Luke 22.47)…Repentance is not arbitrary. It is not left to our choice whether or not we will repent, but it is an indispensable command. God has enacted a law in the High Court of heaven that no sinner shall be saved except the repenting sinner, and he will not break his own law. Some bless themselves that they have a stock of knowledge, but what is knowledge good for without repentance? It is better to mortify one sin than to understand all mysteries. Impure speculatists do but resemble Satan transformed into an angel of light. Learning and a bad heart is like a fair face with a cancer in the breast. Knowledge without repentance will be but a torch to light men to hell (Thomas Watson, The Doctrine of Repentance (Edinburgh: Banner, 1987), pp. 12–13, 59, 77).

Louis Berkhof

There is no doubt that, logically, repentance and the knowledge of sin precedes the faith that yields to Christ in trusting love (Louis Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1939), p. 492).

John Murray

The question has been discussed: which is prior, faith or repentance? It is an unnecessary question and the insistence that one is prior to the other is futile. There is no priority. The faith that is unto salvation is a penitent faith and the repentance that is unto life is a believing repentance…It is impossible to disentangle faith and repentance. Saving faith is permeated with repentance and repentance is permeated with faith (John Murray, Redemption Accomplished and Applied (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1955), p. 113).

The Westminster Confession of Faith

Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ. By it a sinner, out of sight and sense, not only of danger, but also of filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature and righteous law of God, and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments (The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter XV, Sections I and II. Cited in A.A. Hodge, The Confession of Faith (Edinburgh: Banner, 1958), p. 210).

Robert Dabney

The manner in which faith and repentance are coupled together in Scripture plainly shows that, as faith is implicitly present in repentance, so repentance is implicitly in faith. But if so, this gives to faith the active character. Mark i:15; Matt. xxi.32; 2 Tim. ii:25 c (R.L. Dabney, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1980), pp. 606-607).

John DeWitt

Repentance is the first conscious step in a person’s experience of the divine grace, the entrance for all believers into life, hope, and salvation…Repentance—the repentance of which the Scriptures speak as a godly sorrow, the repentance which is unto life—is not only a persuasion of sinfulness, but it is also, and very distinctly, a turning from sin…Everywhere the Word of God reminds us that repentance is not simply honesty with oneself, or even the open confession of one’s sins; it must also lead to a forsaking of them. If it does not do that, if it is only the fear of punishment and of hell, only a trembling before the just judgment of God, without at the same time the purposing to turn away from sin and to undertake a new obedience to God, then it is not repentance at all (John Richard deWitt, Amazing Love (Edinburgh: Banner, 1981), pp. 66, 74-76).

Charles Hodge

Hence it is that repentance is the burden of evangelical preaching…Repentance…is the great, immediate, and pressing duty of all who hear the gospel. They are called upon to forsake their sins, and return unto God through Jesus Christ. The neglect of this duty is the rejection of salvation. For, as we have seen, unless we repent we must perish…Though repentance is a duty, it is no less the gift of God (Charles Hodge, The Way of Life (Edinburgh: Banner, 1959), pp. 153, 166-169.

Arthur Pink

In repentance sin is the thing to be repented of and sin is a transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). And the first and chief thing required by the law is supreme love to God. Therefore, the lack of supreme love to God, the heart’s disaffection for His character and rebellion against Him (Rom. 8:7) is our great wickedness, of which we have to repent.
What is sin? Sin is saying…I disallow His (God’s) right to govern me…I am going to be lord of myself. Sin is rebellion against the Majesty of heaven…The language of every sinner’s heart is, I care not what God requires, I am going to have my own way. I care not what be God’s claims upon me, I refuse to submit to His authority…The Lord Jesus taught and constantly pressed the same truth. His call was ‘Repent ye and believe the gospel’ (Mark 1:15). The gospel cannot be savingly believed until there is genuine repentance.
When the gospel first comes to the sinner it finds him in a state of apostasy from God, both as sovereign Ruler and as our supreme good, neither obeying and glorifying Him, nor enjoying and finding satisfaction in Him. Hence the demand for ‘repentance toward God’ before ‘faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ’ (Acts 20:21). True repentance toward God removes this dissatisfaction of our minds and hearts toward Him, under both these characters. In saving repentance the whole soul turns to Him and says: I have been a disloyal and rebellious creature. I have scorned Thy high authority and most rightful law. I will live no longer thus. I desire and determine with all my might to serve and obey Thee as my only Lord. I subject myself unto Thee, to submit to Thy will…Repentance…is the perception that God has the right to rule and govern me, and of my refusal to submit unto Him…As the Holy Spirit sets before me the loveliness of the divine character, as I am enabled to discern the exalted excellency of God, then I begin to perceive that to which He is justly entitled, namely, the homage of my heart, the unrestricted love of my soul, the complete surrender of my whole being unto Him.
Many are the scriptures which set forth this truth, that there must be a forsaking of sin before God will pardon offenders…He must be crowned Lord of all or He will not be Lord at all. There must be the complete heart renunciation of all that stands in competition with Him. He will brook no rival…Thus repentance is the negative side of conversion. Conversion is a whole–hearted turning unto God, but there cannot be a turning unto, without a turning from. Sin must be forsaken ere we draw nigh unto the Holy One. As it is written, ‘Ye turned to God from idols to serve (live for) the living and true God’ (1 Thes. 1:9) (A.W. Pink, The Doctrine of Salvation (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1975), pp.45, 49-53, 56, 58, 60, 79).

 

[MB]

I have always thought of repentance as turning from you sins to Christ. Yet no man is repentant to that degree entirely, they would no longer sin. This is true repentance. There is not even one who has turned completely. We all sin and we have an advocate to defend us Jesus Christ. If we have need of confession of our sins then we are still sinners. Unless we like Paul separate the flesh from the spirit..
With the spirit I agree with law this is good but the flesh still sins. We can train the flesh yet it's nature is still sinfull It's nature has not changed. Nor will it.. If it no longer sins outwardly then is still desires the sin and that is sin also. Some of you are damming your selves. Setting your selves up for failure. Repentance is a work beyond measure.
MB

 

[AustinC]

Obviously the rule to address the topic and not the poster escaped someone.
The key word ignored is not "by" but "through" even if put in all caps.
Is the fact we are saved by grace in dispute? Nope so an effort to change the subject.
Is the fact at issue that we were dead in our trespasses when God by grace saved us? Nope.
What is in dispute is the false claim of Calvinism that we are not saved through or by reason of faith.
Does faith "come from our innate selves?" Nope We put our faith in God's revealed truth, that God gave His divinely unique Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Scripture tells us salvation is the gift, thus we cannot boast because it is from God. So yet another false claim.

Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1Ti 1:16
Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Does Calvinism claim the promise is not given to those who believe? We are to believe for (or in order to obtain) eternal life.

We disagree. The key word is by.
Your verses all support me since all those verses are directed to the believer, not to the unregenerate.
Secondly, you have completely ignored Ephesians 2:4-5, which clarifies and places Ephesians 2:8-9 within context.
Grace first. Then faith. There is no other order that doesn't destroy grace as the means of salvation.

 

[AustinC]

I have always thought of repentance as turning from you sins to Christ. Yet no man is repentant to that degree entirely, they would no longer sin. This is true repentance. There is not even one who has turned completely. We all sin and we have an advocate to defend us Jesus Christ. If we have need of confession of our sins then we are still sinners. Unless we like Paul separate the flesh from the spirit..
With the spirit I agree with law this is good but the flesh still sins. We can train the flesh yet it's nature is still sinfull It's nature has not changed. Nor will it.. If it no longer sins outwardly then is still desires the sin and that is sin also. Some of you are damming your selves. Setting your selves up for failure. Repentance is a work beyond measure.
MB

You posted in the wrong topic area, MB. This is regarding salvation by grace alone and justification by faith alone. Perhaps ask the mods to move your post to the correct thread. The one on repentance.

 

[MB]

You posted in the wrong topic area, MB. This is regarding salvation by grace alone and justification by faith alone. Perhaps ask the mods to move your post to the correct thread. The one on repentance.

I replied to Savedbygrace. I didn't hit the reply button on his post Tuff cookies
MB

 

[Silverhair]

I do get it. God saves us by unmerited favor.
God does not save us because of our faith.
Silverhair, you preach a graceless salvation. You require man to do before God can act.
Finally, this thread has nothing to do with election. You bring it up as a red herring to avoid the actual topic at hand. I have seen you repeatedly go off-topic like this.
Focus.
Saved by grace.
Justified by faith.

No works. No requirements before God can...

Austin you say that I am avoiding the topic
Saved by grace.
Justified by faith.

Well lets get back to the topic.

Please note man is justified by His {Gods'} grace {Rom 3:24} and we are told that a man is justified by faith in Jesus {Rom 3:28}. Now are you going to say that being justified/saved by Gods’ grace is somehow different from being justified/saved by faith in Jesus?

You have put forward the idea that being justified and being saved are different but the text from Rom 3:21-30 does not agree with your view.

Also could you address this question that I asked you before but had no answer. You said in your first post:

>>Galatians 2:15-16 presents that belief comes before faith, which means there is no requirement to have faith before one can be saved.<<

So my question is this:

Are you saying that belief in Christ Jesus because He is the promised Messiah is different than having faith in Christ Jesus because He is the promised Messiah. If so how?

 

[Silverhair]

We disagree. The key word is by.
Your verses all support me since all those verses are directed to the believer, not to the unregenerate.
Secondly, you have completely ignored Ephesians 2:4-5, which clarifies and places Ephesians 2:8-9 within context.
Grace first. Then faith. There is no other order that doesn't destroy grace as the means of salvation.

This one was not directed at believers Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

I am truly mystified as to how you can miss the clear intent of scripture. But you seem really determined to do so.

 

[Reformed]

Galatians 2:15-16 presents that belief comes before faith, which means there is no requirement to have faith before one can be saved. This passage also shares that we are justified by faith (not saved by faith) alone, apart from works.

This thread is focused primarily on Galatians 2:15-16 as the core passage upon which other passages support the assertion I have made.

We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

A couple of three things...

1. In the Monergestic Ordo Salutis there is no distinction between belief and faith. In fact, the two are the same.
2. Faith/belief follow regeneration, but precede justification.
3. Galatians 2:16 does clearly state, "a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus". Ephesians 2:8-10 is parallel passage.
4. Works are the purpose for which we are saved (Ephesians 2:10), not the process by which we are saved.

 

[kyredneck]

1. In the Monergestic Ordo Salutis there is no distinction between belief and faith. In fact, the two are the same.

Agree. The word 'faith' is not found in the gospel of John.

2. Faith/belief follow regeneration, but precede justification.

While we were yet sinners we were justified by His blood:

8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5

I make a chicken soup with chicken, celery, carrots, noodles, chicken broth, and seasoning. It would be silly for me to say 'the soup is chicken broth alone'. That's exactly what you Reformed/Calvinist types do when you insist that faith is the only element of our justification, especially after the scriptures explicitly states 'justification is NOT by faith alone'

3. Galatians 2:16 does clearly state, "a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus". Ephesians 2:8-10 is parallel passage.

Yet the scriptures clearly indicate that works are an integral element of our justification, which requires some 'rightly dividing' on our parts, which you Reformed/Calvinist types seem loathe to do but would rather take the 'ostrich approach' and pretend they're not there and then castigate those that do look to 'rightly divide' with charges of 'merit based salvation'. It's definitely a herd mentality that you Reformed/Calvinist types have fallen into..

 

[Van]

We disagree. The key word is by.
Your verses all support me since all those verses are directed to the believer, not to the unregenerate.
Secondly, you have completely ignored Ephesians 2:4-5, which clarifies and places Ephesians 2:8-9 within context.
Grace first. Then faith. There is no other order that doesn't destroy grace as the means of salvation.

Yet another ridiculous response. The issue is the meaning of "through" which was not addressed. Instead, the ol change the topic ploy was once again employed. Next the issue that believe in Christ and faith in Christ are the same thing according to scripture with four supporting verses. Once again ignored. Next, your claim was not grace first but saved first, so once again a running from one falsehood to another rather than face truth. Next the issue that we were saved by grace is still not at issue. Ephesians 2:4-5 does not address the timing of faith. So the whole effort is simply a smokescreen to hide the falsehoods of Calvinism. Scripture says salvation does not depend on the man that wills (i.e. believes) but on God, therefore through faith does not "destroy" the fact we are saved by grace alone through faith alone.

Rom 4:16 For this reason it is out of (or on the basis of) faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

 

[MB]

Yet another ridiculous response. The issue is the meaning of "through" which was not addressed. Instead, the ol change the topic ploy was once again employed. Next the issue that believe in Christ and faith in Christ are the same thing according to scripture with four supporting verses. Once again ignored. Next, your claim was not grace first but saved first, so once again a running from one falsehood to another rather than face truth. Next the issue that we were saved by grace is still not at issue. Ephesians 2:4-5 does not address the timing of faith. So the whole effort is simply a smokescreen to hide the falsehoods of Calvinism. Scripture says salvation does not depend on the man that wills (i.e. believes) but on God, therefore through faith does not "destroy" the fact we are saved by grace alone through faith alone.

You leave God out of Salvation and He is not alone either.

I find it so interesting that even you say grace alone and faith alone when neither is alone because they happen at the same time. The moment we believe we have faith and at the same moment we receive grace and are saved. This alone stuff must be you that's alone The word "alone" is a Calvinist ploy. It's just plain nonsense Nothing in Salvation is alone and the Bible never says any of the process of Salvation is alone.Try Salvation with the whole process.. It take the Son, It takes the Holy Spirit and it takes the person that's being saved.
MB

 

[37818]

. . . This alone stuff must be you that's alone The word "alone" is a Calvinist ploy. It's just plain nonsense . . . .

This "alone" usage is a problem of language. The concept needs to be understood as a whole, not the parts without its other parts, . . . from God alone, by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone . . . . to explain a Biblical understanding of a Biblical truth.

 

[Van]

You leave God out of Salvation and He is not alone either.

I find it so interesting that even you say grace alone and faith alone when neither is alone because they happen at the same time. The moment we believe we have faith and at the same moment we receive grace and are saved. This alone stuff must be you that's alone The word "alone" is a Calvinist ploy. It's just plain nonsense Nothing in Salvation is alone and the Bible never says any of the process of Salvation is alone.Try Salvation with the whole process.. It take the Son, It takes the Holy Spirit and it takes the person that's being saved.
MB

Your post is ridiculous too!! Are you denying we are saved by God's saving grace alone, and not also by something we supply. Are you denying we are saved by faith alone, and not also by some supernatural enablement beam. Romans 9:16 says salvation does not depend on the person who wills (i.e. chooses to believe in Christ) but on God's mercy? For God to credit someone's faith which is as a filthy rag to God, as righteousness is a manifestation of God's grace and nothing else is needed, thus God's grace alone...

 

[AustinC]

Your post is ridiculous too!! Are you denying we are saved by God's saving grace alone, and not also by something we supply. Are you denying we are saved by faith alone, and not also by some supernatural enablement beam. Romans 9:16 says salvation does not depend on the person who wills (i.e. chooses to believe in Christ) but on God's mercy? For God to credit someone's faith which is as a filthy rag to God, as righteousness is a manifestation of God's grace and nothing else is needed, thus God's grace alone...

Saved by grace alone.

Justified by faith alone.

NOT, saved by faith, which causes God to be gracious.

 

[MB]

This "alone" usage is a problem of language. The concept needs to be understood as a whole, not the parts without its other parts, . . . from God alone, by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone . . . . to explain a Biblical understanding of a Biblical truth.

I'm sorry there is no biblical truth in any of the described above. Not one of them is ever alone..Truth explains scripture not a false assumption. It certainly doesn't explain anything How can a lie explain truth.?
MB

 

[MB]

Your post is ridiculous too!! Are you denying we are saved by God's saving grace alone, and not also by something we supply. Are you denying we are saved by faith alone, and not also by some supernatural enablement beam. Romans 9:16 says salvation does not depend on the person who wills (i.e. chooses to believe in Christ) but on God's mercy? For God to credit someone's faith which is as a filthy rag to God, as righteousness is a manifestation of God's grace and nothing else is needed, thus God's grace alone...

Nonsense because God is never alone. Where did I say it depends on the man? You're placing words in my mouth Grace is favor and it takes God to create His grace and it takes God to give it to us. Being alone it just plainly doesn't work. Man can believe until the cows come home, but with out Christ man has no place to put His faith This "Alone" stuff is bull. We do not aquire faith alone. We do aquire grace alone, Everything works together or it doesn't work for Salvation.
Alone we better pray it is never alone.
MB.

 

[kyredneck]

Justified by faith alone.

That's anti-scriptural.

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

Justified by faith alone.

It's stupidity to keep insisting that faith is the only element of our justification.

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8