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Saved by Grace Alone, Justified by Faith Alone

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Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Titus 3:4-7 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 5:1-10 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Romans 4:16-25 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah’s womb. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Galatians 3:7-9 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

James 2:18-26 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

I will let these verses, surrounded by their context, speak for themselves.

Titus 3:4-7 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

As I have said many times and you are aware of the fact faith is not a work.

Romans 5:1-10
Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

And here again we see that faith comes first then we are saved by Gods' grace.

Romans 4:16-25
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—... That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

And yet again salvation depends upon our faith.

Galatians 3:7-9
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

You have done a great job here Austin. Your support for faith as a requirement for salvation is appreciated.

James 2:18-26
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

I am quite sure you know that the works James is speaking of are works that a person will do once they are saved not so they will be saved . But then again you do like to twist peoples words don't you.

I will let these verses, surrounded by their context, speak for themselves.

Yes I agree you should let scripture speak for itself. God has said that we are saved by His grace IF we have faith in His son. So as you have shown faith comes first then grace for salvation. I added red and bold to help you see the truth of scripture.
 
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Silverhair

Well-Known Member
We go by the scriptures, as they state natural persons dead in sins and transgressions have no inherit saving faith within them!

I find that strange since it is God that says we have to have faith in His son before we are saved. True we have no "saving faith" we just have faith and then God saves us because of that faith.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
As I have said many times and you are aware of the fact faith is not a work.



And here again we see that faith comes first then we are saved by Gods' grace.



And yet again salvation depends upon our faith.



You have done a great job here Austin. Your support for faith as a requirement for salvation is appreciated.



I am quite sure you know that the works James is speaking of are works that a person will do once they are saved not so they will be saved . But then again you do like to twist peoples words don't you.



Yes I agree you should let scripture speak for itself. God has said that we are saved by His grace IF we have faith in His son. So as you have shown faith comes first then grace for salvation. I added red and bold to help you see the truth of scripture.

Silverhair, none of the passages require faith as the means by which grace can be given. You are, simply put, wrong.
Moreso, when you state that something is required, you absolutely reject grace and you replace grace with a law that is required to be fulfilled before a transaction action can happen. The analogy is this: Before you can receive your social security check, you are required to fill out the forms in order to activate the check being sent.
That is what you are doing when you require faith before saving grace can be received.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Silverhair, none of the passages require faith as the means by which grace can be given. You are, simply put, wrong.
Moreso, when you state that something is required, you absolutely reject grace and you replace grace with a law that is required to be fulfilled before a transaction action can happen. The analogy is this: Before you can receive your social security check, you are required to fill out the forms in order to activate the check being sent.
That is what you are doing when you require faith before saving grace can be received.

Austin you can deny scripture all you want but when God say that faith is the requirement for salvation well I think we should trust He knows what He means. How you can not see what is right in front of you is amazing but you are determined to do so aren't you.

How many times must I repeat it to you before it sinks in. We are saved by Gods' grace because we trust in His son Christ Jesus. Perhaps if you should just read scripture instead of trying to read into scripture.

through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace Rom 5:2

Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace Rom 4:16

Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith Gal 3:8

Does the fact that scripture does not support your view offend you? It seems you want to deny what scripture says even when you have quoted the text.
 
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Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Spiritual dead have faith?

Why do you think that the apostles were told to preach the gospel? Were not all those that heard dead in their sins? Do you really think God would hold someone responsible for not trusting in His son if they really did not have the God given ability to do so?

We are all separated from God due to our sin, but when the sinner places his trust in Christ Jesus, this separation from God due to sin is eliminated for that individual.{Eph_2:4-5; Eph_2:8-9}

And as the scriptures show that access is through faith.

through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace Rom 5:2

Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace Rom 4:16

Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith Gal 3:8

The scriptures are clear enough, you just have to accept what they say. God has not left us without the means of knowing and coming to Him. His creation points us to Him and the gospel lived out in Christians or the message itself will draw others to Christ Jesus.

Here is a verse that should help you understand better
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Notice it say through faith not so that we will have faith in Christ Jesus.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Austin you can deny scripture all you want but when God say that faith is the requirement for salvation well I think we should trust He knows what He means. How you can not see what is right in front of you is amazing but you are determined to do so aren't you.

How many times must I repeat it to you before it sinks in. We are saved by Gods' grace because we trust in His son Christ Jesus. Perhaps if you should just read scripture instead of trying to read into scripture.

through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace Rom 5:2

Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace Rom 4:16

Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith Gal 3:8

Does the fact that scripture does not support your view offend you? It seems you want to deny what scripture says even when you have quoted the text.
I don't deny scripture. I reject your abuse of scripture as you deny saving grace and replace it with salvation by performing a legal task, which results in a person being awarded salvation.

Simply put, you outright reject grace.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
I suppose some Calvinists suppose the hearing causes the regeneration simultaneously with faith in some way. Romans 10:17.

As some Calvinists have put it you have to be regenerated/saved before you can have the faith to believe given to you by God. How they think that is biblical I am not sure. But then some say the regeneration does not mean saved so they have a bunch of ideas that do not fit with the bible.
I have conversed with a number of Calvinists and have yet to be given a compelling reason to think it is true.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
I don't deny scripture. I reject your abuse of scripture as you deny saving grace and replace it with salvation by performing a legal task, which results in a person being awarded salvation.

Simply put, you outright reject grace.

So you still deny what scripture says. Faith is not a work {legal task} no matter what you call it. You keep saying that God does not require anything but the bible disagrees with you.

And as the scriptures show that access is through faith.

through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace Rom 5:2

Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace Rom 4:16

Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith Gal 3:8

The scriptures are clear enough, you just have to accept what they say.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Salvation is the free gift of God. Think about this. If God just gave salvation to people for no reason then why all the conditional verses.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand...

I am not sure how much clearer Paul could have made it. We are justified by faith and have access by said faith into His {Gods} grace. What more can I say, it is right there in front of you.
I can appreciate that this must be hard for you to accept but the scriptures are the scriptures.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
So you still deny what scripture says. Faith is not a work {legal task} no matter what you call it. You keep saying that God does not require anything but the bible disagrees with you.

And as the scriptures show that access is through faith.

through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace Rom 5:2

Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace Rom 4:16

Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith Gal 3:8

The scriptures are clear enough, you just have to accept what they say.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Salvation is the free gift of God. Think about this. If God just gave salvation to people for no reason then why all the conditional verses.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand...

I am not sure how much clearer Paul could have made it. We are justified by faith and have access by said faith into His {Gods} grace. What more can I say, it is right there in front of you.
I can appreciate that this must be hard for you to accept but the scriptures are the scriptures.
Again, I welcome all these verses. I welcome the detailed process by which Paul walks us through justification by faith alone. He starts in Romans 1, showing that all humanity in incapable of knowing God's justification via natural revelation. He goes on to show how both Gentiles, not under the law and Jews, under the law, fall short and are condemned by God. He shows how Abraham was justified by the faith God gave him and how all persons of the promise are justified by this same faith, which God gives to his elect (see Romans 8-11).

Silverhair, I welcome with open arms what Paul teaches. However, you do not teach what Paul teaches. You add a gospel not taught anywhere by God's chosen writers.

You teach a legal method of salvation that denies God's grace. You teach faith as a legal process by which you get God to fulfill the transaction of a contract as a necessary means to be saved. You outright deny grace. I reject your abominable interpretation of the Bible. If I go farther I will be banned so I leave it there for all discerning brothers and sisters to conclude.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Again, I welcome all these verses. I welcome the detailed process by which Paul walks us through justification by faith alone. He starts in Romans 1, showing that all humanity in incapable of knowing God's justification via natural revelation. He goes on to show how both Gentiles, not under the law and Jews, under the law, fall short and are condemned by God. He shows how Abraham was justified by the faith God gave him and how all persons of the promise are justified by this same faith, which God gives to his elect (see Romans 8-11).

Silverhair, I welcome with open arms what Paul teaches. However, you do not teach what Paul teaches. You add a gospel not taught anywhere by God's chosen writers.

You teach a legal method of salvation that denies God's grace. You teach faith as a legal process by which you get God to fulfill the transaction of a contract as a necessary means to be saved. You outright deny grace. I reject your abominable interpretation of the Bible. If I go farther I will be banned so I leave it there for all discerning brothers and sisters to conclude.

Well if you cannot or actually will not see what the plain text of scripture says then there is no more help that I can give you. Your refusal to accept text as written will be your judge.

God has set a requirement for salvation but you think otherwise so you have put yourself over God as to how someone is saved. That is a very dangerous place to stand but you have chosen to stand there. You seem determined to walk down that road, so be it.
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Ridiculous claims no matter how often repeated remain ridiculous. First, before creation God was alone. Thus the ignorance of scripture is exposed. Second, If salvation does not depend on man, then salvation depends on God ALONE!. Did anyone say or suggest people "acquire" faith all by themselves, rather than we are drawn by the Father? Nope. Our faith comes from God's grace of revelation.
You sound more Calvinistic than usual must be true that Arminians are Calvinist too
MB
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Well if you cannot or actually will not see what the plain text of scripture says then there is no more help that I can give you. Your refusal to accept text as written will be your judge.

God has set a requirement for salvation but you think otherwise so you have put yourself over God as to how someone is saved. That is a very dangerous place to stand but you have chosen to stand there. You seem determined to walk down that road, so be it.
I can and do see what the text of scripture says.
Ephesians 2:4-10 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

You add requirements and thus you deny salvation by grace.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
From the God the Holy Spirit of course. All of grace, none of self. Salvation by grace alone through faith alone. :)

@Silverhair's post #94 is a winner, and he's a synergist! Why is it that a 'free willer' can get 'justification' right but you Reformed/Calvinist types can't? The scripture is plain, there's more than just one element to our justification but 'you people' keep doggedly parroting the same erroneous mantra, justification by faith alone, justification by faith alone, justification by faith alone....
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Works are not the fruit of faith. Works and faith both are fruits of the Spirit.
Regeneration BEFORE faith, remember? Aren't you a teacher of Calvinism? Have you forgotten this very basic tenet of Calvinism?

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

No works explicitly stated in the fruit of the Spirit, but certainly faithfulness.
Martin has already pointed to evidence that faith expresses itself in the works God ordains us to do.

Egad! Your Reformed/Calvinist brainwashing has blinded you to the simplest of terms. How does 'love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control' NOT equate to 'the law written in the heart'?

Does the text say that the fruit of the Spirit is equated to the law written on our heart or is it simply what you infer into the text?

<sigh>

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love,.....

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
<sigh>



10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13
You are really stretching verses out of context to try make a point, kyredneck. Unfortunately for you, the verse you plucked doesn't support your contention about the fruit of the Spirit.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You are really stretching verses out of context to try make a point, kyredneck. Unfortunately for you

No the context is spot on. You're just too brainwashed/indoctrinated with your Calvinist dogma to make the clear connection from scripture, unfortunately for you.

the verse you plucked doesn't support your contention about the fruit of the Spirit

Oh, but it most definitely does. Agape is the fulfillment of the law. It's just that simple. Too simple for you Calvinist clones to concede to. It's just gotta be more complex than that!
 
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Silverhair

Well-Known Member
I can and do see what the text of scripture says.
Ephesians 2:4-10 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

You add requirements and thus you deny salvation by grace.

Why do you insist in avoiding the text. I notice you did not bold an important part of the text >>For by grace you have been saved through faith<< As long as you continue to ignore the text you will miss the truths of God.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
No the context is spot on. You're just too brainwashed/indoctrinated with your Calvinist dogma to make the clear connection from scripture, unfortunately for you.



Oh, but it most definitely does. Agape is the fulfillment of the law. It's just that simple. Too simple for you Calvinist clones to concede to. It's just gotta be more complex than that!
Who is Love, kyredneck?
Ler me answer that.
God is love. The fulfillment of the law is...Love. Do you see that? The fulfillment of the law is our King, who is Love.
Since neither you nor I can love in such a way as to fulfill the law, we are dependent upon the One who did fulfill the law and pay our debt so that we are justified by faith in what Christ alone did.
Saved by grace alone.
Justified by faith alone.

You're welcome.
 
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