Why Do The Reformed/Calvinists Hate the Lost?

[AustinC]

Then why does he save sinners. God hates the sin yes but not the sinners. It is the sinners or workers of iniquity. He loved the sinner enough to die for sinners yet you claim God hates sinners. If you say He died for only the elect you still have no excuse for the sinners he saves everyday. We all better hope He saves sinners and loves them enough to save them.We are all sinners everyone of us.
MB

Romans 9:15-16 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

There is your answer.

 

[MB]

It doesn't say He died for all individuals. You will not find one single verse that claims that.

This is what God's word says;
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

You will of course deny that "world" means all and add "the elect" or" Calvinist" but this is because you are deceived and you can't read whats right in front of you.With out changing it's meaning to fit your pitiful doctrines
MB..

 

[Reformed1689]

This is what God's word says;
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

You will of course deny that "world" means all and add "the elect" or" Calvinist" but this is because you are deceived and you can't read whats right in front of you.With out changing it's meaning to fit your pitiful doctrines
MB..

First of all, I do not say world in this verse means elect. So you are wrong there. World means humanity in general. Not individuals.

If I say the whole world is watching the Braves/Dodgers game, does that literally mean every individual? No.

 

[Reynolds]

This is what God's word says;
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

You will of course deny that "world" means all and add "the elect" or" Calvinist" but this is because you are deceived and you can't read whats right in front of you.With out changing it's meaning to fit your pitiful doctrines
MB..

Nothing has to be changed. It fits either Calvinism or Arminianism. There is just enough vagueness there that we can not proclude either interpretation.

 

[37818]

It doesn't say He died for all individuals. You will not find one single verse that claims that.

So here is the problem, is the gospel to be preached to all individuals or not? If Christ did not die for them it is fraud.

 

[Reformed1689]

So here is the problem, is the gospel to be preached to all individuals or not? If Christ did not die for them it is fraud.

Yes it is to be preached to all because that is what we are told to do. We do not know who the elect are and who are not. That is not fraud. And it depends what you are preaching as to whether or not it would be a "fraud" as you call it.

 

[MB]

First of all, I do not say world in this verse means elect. So you are wrong there. World means humanity in general. Not individuals.

If I say the whole world is watching the Braves/Dodgers game, does that literally mean every individual? No.

"humanity in genera" Is all people.Remember God is not a God of confusion. You are still trying to confuse what world means. Christ didn't just die for a select few He died for the world
Rom_10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
We see in this verse that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

MB

 

[37818]

Yes it is to be preached to all because that is what we are told to do. We do not know who the elect are and who are not. That is not fraud. And it depends what you are preaching as to whether or not it would be a "fraud" as you call it.

If the following is not true:
Romans 5:8, ". . . while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. . . ." Or 1 Corinthians 15:3, ". . . that Christ died for our sins . . . ." How is it not fraud? The audience is included even if they do not believe. Mark 16:15.

 

[MB]

Nothing has to be changed. It fits either Calvinism or Arminianism. There is just enough vagueness there that we can not proclude either interpretation.

It's as clear as crystal to me that Christ died for the world. This is what it clearly says.John wasn't vague.
MB

 

[RipponRedeaux]

we have answered, just not acceptable!

I have kept track over the years. You are certainly not in the habit of answering questions. But you can claim to join in the group effort.

 

[Reformed1689]

"humanity in genera" Is all people.Remember God is not a God of confusion. You are still trying to confuse what world means. Christ didn't just die for a select few He died for the world
Rom_10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
We see in this verse that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

MB

In what world does "world" mean every individual person in every case?

 

[Reformed1689]

If the following is not true:
Romans 5:8, ". . . while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. . . ." Or 1 Corinthians 15:3, ". . . that Christ died for our sins . . . ." How is it not fraud? The audience is included even if they do not believe. Mark 16:15.

Who was Romans and 1 Corinthians written to? Who is the audience?

 

[Dave G]

Pslam 106:40 says that God DETESTS His own people!!!

Read the rest of Psalms 106.
Does it not tell you who His people are, there?

Starting at verse 7 and continuing on until I reach verse 48, I see that the Psalmist is describing those that were unrighteous in the nation of Israel.

 

[MB]

In what world does "world" mean every individual person in every case?

You've already answered this question as"Humanity in general" This means all of humanity.
MB

 

[Dave G]

Then why does he save sinners.

" But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." ( 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 )

" to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. " ( Ephesians 1:6 ).

" who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." ( Titus 2:14 ).

God hates the sin yes but not the sinners.

Does it not say, in the passage I listed, that He actually hates the worker of iniquity?
You do believe the words, don't you MB?

He loved the sinner enough to die for sinners yet you claim God hates sinners.

All of His elect were sinners, the same as the rest, MB.
Do you not see in the Bible that God loved sinners in the sense of loving the "whosoever believeth", and hates those that don't?

God loved Jacob, and made him righteous by his grace, and hated Esau and left him in his sins to judge?

If you say He died for only the elect you still have no excuse for the sinners he saves everyday.

He does save His elect, my friend, every time He calls one to Himself through His word and by His Spirit.
I do not know how often that happens, though.

I do know that many people claim to believe, and then show who they are by denying Christ in their works and in their ways in this life.
When the times get tough, they fall away from the hope of the Gospel...
They go back to loving this world and its ways.

But He does save His people, and keeps them.

 

[Dave G]

We all better hope He saves sinners and loves them enough to save them.

He does indeed.

In fact, according to Ephesians 2, He loved us even while we were dead ( towards Him ) in our trespasses and sins;
According to Romans 5:10, when we as His people were yet His enemies in our hearts and in our minds, He reconciled us to Him by the death of His Son.

And according to Romans 8:31-39, no one can lay anything to the charge of God's elect, because it is God who justifies someone.
How does He do that?
By regarding the blood of His Son being atoned for them as satisfaction for those sins that they were, are, and will be responsible for.

Nothing and no one can separate them from His love.

We are all sinners everyone of us.

Yes, we are.
Aren't you glad that you've believed on Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins?

That, my friend ( among many other evidences ) is what separates those that are perishing, from those that are saved.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Read the rest of Psalms 106.
Does it not tell you who His people are, there?

Starting at verse 7 and continuing on until I reach verse 48, I see that the Psalmist is describing those that were unrighteous in the nation of Israel.

verse 40 tells us "His own inheritance", which cannot be the unsaved!

 

[Reformed1689]

You've already answered this question as"Humanity in general" This means all of humanity.
MB

No those are not the same thing. In general does not mean all.

 

[Dave G]

verse 40 tells us "His own inheritance", which cannot be the unsaved!

I agree, to an extent.
I see that it's the nation of Israel, which includes a great many unsaved and some that are saved.

Please see Romans 9:27:

" Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:" <------ A remnant shall be saved out of all of Israel.

and Romans 11:5-7:

" Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded".

In the above, I see that in Israel there is a remnant according to God's election, which is of His grace and mercy....and that Israel, as a nation, has not obtained what they seek for ( because they sought it not by faith, Romans 9:32, and the word did not profit them because it was not mixed with faith, Hebrews 4:2 ) , but God's elect have, and the rest of Israel was blinded by God ( see Romans 11:8-12 ).

Israel is God's chosen physical nation from among all the peoples of the earth.
The "Israel of God" is the Lord's chosen spiritual nation made up of people from every physical tongue, tribe and nation ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ).
It's found in the book of Romans, Revelation and Galatians, as well as other places, my friend.
As before, Romans 8, Romans 9, Romans 10 and Romans 11 are where I find much of that information, for the most part.

Reading Romans and many other New Testament truths back into the Old Testament, I then see that the righteous are the elect, while the wicked are not....
the vessels of mercy are the "whosoever believeth", while the vessels of wrath are those who will never believe, from the heart, and will perish in the Lake of Fire.

Again, my best advice to you is to read what the Psalms say, for example,
and to me, you should see who the righteous are when carried back over to the New Testament...those that are made righteous by the blood of His Son, forgiven of all trespasses.

It is those that He loves, and who love Him, from the heart.
They are the called according to His purpose ( Romans 8:28 ).


May God bless you.

 

[MB]

No those are not the same thing. In general does not mean all.

Your such a good English major. The problem is the Bible was not written in English. The actual word was Kosmos this word does include all. . Everyone who is drawn can be saved and all men are drawn.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
It does not say all the elect or all the special ones but all as in everyone. The meaning of all in the Greek;
πᾶς
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
Total KJV occurrences: 1238
MB